The prophecy of Saint Malachy

[RomanRite]

I have came across some videos that Saint Malachy predicted the future Popes, and that there will be a " Pope Peter the Roman " who will bring tribulation to the Church. This has put me in fear of leaving the Church and I was wondering what are your comments on the Predictions of the Future Popes?

 

[WarriorAngel]

The Pope [Peter] who has returned - will not bring tribulation - but will be Pope in tribulation.
IE - when the world is a mess - this is the Pope that will be leading. He probably ought to have an iron stomach for the task - or plenty of antacids.

Peter returning might not be anything 'obvious' - but rather as Peter was persecuted - so will the next Pope. Or martyred, or whatever else... only Malachi could see and then in turn [so we dont know] he hid what he really knew.

Some say - more could be in between - Pope Benedict XVl and 'Peter' returns.
As far as i am concerned - i dont think so. I think a young Pope could be chosen who could live a long time.

But as far as i am concerned and my opinion isnt shared - likely - we are in tribulations.
And if the fact the Mass attendance is down isnt proof [or at least part proof] then what could be more proof of the trial on earth?

[Then all the other stuff]

Grant you - Mass attendance in history has never been so low.

 

[RomanRite]

"In the extreme persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will sit Peter the Roman, who will nourish the sheep in many tribulations; when they are finished, the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the dreadful judge will judge his people. The end."

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

The Prophecies of St. Malachy are very questionable, and certainly not to be regarded with the sort of faith that we assign to approved messages from Heaven or those prophecies which certainly began with the saints (long story made extremely short, it's very likely that St. Malachy did not actually write the Prophecy of the Popes).

Aside from that, though, it's never a bad idea to pray for the strength to support your faith in adversity, and to celebrate the sacraments and sacramentals frequently in the hope that you can grow in holiness to face anything that may come. Whether the Prophecy of the Popes is a forgery or not, the day to day temptations and snares of life take more souls to Hell than outright persecution every has. Satan may prowl about like a lion seeking whom he may devour, but his methods are a lot more subtle than teeth, claws, and feline muscle.

 

[RomanRite]

But what questions me is how were all these Popes predicted?

 

[Eretria90]

I have came across some videos that Saint Malachy predicted the future Popes, and that there will be a " Pope Peter the Roman " who will bring tribulation to the Church. This has put me in fear of leaving the Church and I was wondering what are your comments on the Predictions of the Future Popes?

The so-called "prophecy of St. Malachy" is so convoluted that it has no weight in believing; it's not worth your time, because God will initiate the End Times whenever he sees fit. He doesn't need to give us some forged prophecy to do what He wants. I think you're just overreacting to everything you have heard in the media; just look at all the "news" regarding Pope Benedict and the seeming obsession with the Catholic Church.

It's pretty sad when a newspaper writes an article about a forged prophecy, just one more reason to add slant to the Church. In fact, EVERYTHING I have seen in online and newspaper media has been about negative things regarding the Pope and the Church. No one can ever say anything good can they? Not to mention, it's all over CF. Let the Protestants remain paranoid, I say. They'll eventually come to realize it's not true. It's all being brought to light anyway with the resignation of Pope Benedict.

It sounds like you're suffering from media/mass hysteria. You would seriously leave the Church because of some forged prophecy? I hope you reexamine your faith and I will pray for you.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I have came across some videos that Saint Malachy predicted the future Popes, and that there will be a " Pope Peter the Roman " who will bring tribulation to the Church. This has put me in fear of leaving the Church and I was wondering what are your comments on the Predictions of the Future Popes?

First of all, there is no proof these prophecies are authentic.

Second, if they are, the text of it says he will shepherd the Church THROUGH a period of tribulation not that he will bring tribulation to the Church as if he is some type of evil pope.

And the city on 7 hills in scripture is Jerusalem, not Rome.

 

[RomanRite]

First of all, there is no proof these prophecies are authentic.

Second, if they are, the text of it says he will shepherd the Church THROUGH a period of tribulation not that he will bring tribulation to the Church as if he is some type of evil pope.

And the city on 7 hills in scripture is Jerusalem, not Rome.

" He will nourish the sheep in many tribulations"

 

[thereselittleflower]

" He will nourish the sheep in many tribulations"

Now you're reading into it what you want to see. One does not nourish sheep with evil.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Time always has a way of 'bringing in doubts' - whether or not authenticity exists.
Look at the OT - now considered mere symbolism according to some 'educated scholars'. [Probably off the advice of those who deny it]

So whether or not we can ascertain with absolute certainty of the authenticity - i still say our times are troubled. Not only because of every sin imaginable getting it's 'pass' - but Church attendance [or even obedience] is certainly - low.

Aside from this era - i cannot find another generation so lukewarm as ours. So disaffected and disinterested in going to Mass.
As Christ said 'When I return will there be faith...'

And the last days will be 'noted' - just as we can ascertain spring is coming by the fig tree sprouting leaves.
Christ didnt leave us in the dark.

Time will tell if the prophecies are authentic. If they are - i dont personally believe that 'the last' will be obvious.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Now you're reading into it what you want to see. One does not nourish sheep with evil.

That is not what that means.

 

[WarriorAngel]

112. Peter the Roman, who will pasture his sheep in many tribulations, and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills [i.e. Rome] will be destroyed, and the dreadful judge will judge his people. The End.




Revelation 3
[6] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. [7] And to the angel of the church of Philadelphia, write: These things saith the Holy One and the true one, he that hath the key of David; he that openeth, and no man shutteth; shutteth, and no man openeth: [8] I know thy works. Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. [9] Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee. [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of the temptation, which shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell upon the earth.
[11] Behold, I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. [12] He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; and he shall go out no more; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and my new name.



IF per chance this wasnt authentic - i suspect someone knew scriptures pretty well.
If its not authentic - someone lined up Revelation 3 to this prophecy - which is possible - it remains to be seen.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes#cite_note-See-11

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

But what questions me is how were all these Popes predicted?

Most likely a combination of postdiction (writing down known facts about popes who reigned prior to the forging) and intentional vagueness. The actual Prophecy of the Popes would seem to support this. Popes prior to the date when it "surfaced" are described in extremely vivid terms, even if those terms are sometimes slightly opaque. The first pope on the list, according to the text, would be born in a castle on the Tiber. He was, of course, actually born on a castle on the Tiber.

Since then, some of the descriptions have been so vague that many popes could fit them ("Angelic Shepherd", anyone?), andthe ones that are more exact often have to be really, really forced (Glory of the Olive refers to Benedict XVI because he named himself after St. Benedict, whose order has a minor branch called the Olivetans, with whom Pope Benedict XVI has no particular connection). A handful have been very close descriptions, but given the sheer number, you have to balance those against the ones that are just weird ("Wavy Man" to describe a pope from a city supposedly founded by Odysseus). Nostradamus had a handful of very close descriptions of future events, scattered amidst a lot of vagueness. That doesn't mean we consider him a prophet.

The main issue with the prophecies St. Malachey was never reported as having written them, even though he supposedly gave them to a pope to help support him in a time of hardship. He isn't one of the early saints about whom we know almost nothing; St. Malachey had a biography written by a sainted contemporary who actually knew him (and whom he visited during the trip on which he supposedly experienced the visions). Surely writing an apocalyptic prophecy would have been worth mentioning, but it's not there. There's no hint that St. Malachey or the pope considered the prophecy worthy or secrecy, either. It was simply "lost" in the Vatican archives for five hundred years, up to the time when it surfaced during a papal conclave with a surprising prophecy which seemed to describe one particular cardinal very well as the next pope (this particular cardinal did not become pope). It bears mentioning that, at the time, the papacy was very hotly contested.

I just don't really feel like the Prophecy of the Popes is worthy of support, given that it is very probably a forgery.

 

[Tigg]

All rightee now. We don't have long to wait for the next Pope so if his name be Peter, the Roman then we can all worry. Get our blood preszsure an heart beat up, and plan on what to do...

I pray that the next Pope, whoever he be, is strong enough to root out any evil within the clergy and keep the faith. And may Pope Benedict (he will always be Pope to me) have peace.

 

[thereselittleflower]

112. Peter the Roman, who will pasture his sheep in many tribulations, and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills [i.e. Rome] will be destroyed, and the dreadful judge will judge his people. The End.




Revelation 3
[6] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. [7] And to the angel of the church of Philadelphia, write: These things saith the Holy One and the true one, he that hath the key of David; he that openeth, and no man shutteth; shutteth, and no man openeth: [8] I know thy works. Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. [9] Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee. [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of the temptation, which shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell upon the earth.
[11] Behold, I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. [12] He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; and he shall go out no more; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and my new name.



IF per chance this wasnt authentic - i suspect someone knew scriptures pretty well.
If its not authentic - someone lined up Revelation 3 to this prophecy - which is possible - it remains to be seen.

Now WA you know what I have to say about taking any private revelation, ESPECIALLY ones not recognized by the Church or approved, and then using scripture as somehow validating them.


"ie Rome" is inserted there by the translater, not just translating but interpreting. . .


Remember, those were letters to existing Churches in Turkey . .. and the book of Revelation is of a particular genre popular at the time, called apocalyptic writing. It is not a prophetic foretelling of future events with a time line - it is a highly symbolic telling of the story of the triumph of good over evil, and christian apocalyptic writing that of God over evil. In fact, the Mass is symbollzed throughout the book - the segments of the Mass each having a corresponding segment in the book of Revelation.

I have a link somewhere that actaully breaks it apart .. will see if I can find it.

 

[Saint Malachy]

Hello everybody,

I have been studying St. Malachy's Prophecy for years and as much as I wish the prophecy were the truth, I feel that the most likely reality is that the prophecy is a hoax.

2000 years ago Jesus entrusted Peter with carrying on His works. Peter became the first Pope as a result of this. Out of respect for the very first Peter, every Pope has purposely steered clear of taking that Papal name.

We are now faced with a 900 year old prophecy (which supposedly has run with perfect accuracy) which is telling us that the next Pope will break tradition and take the one name that should never be taken.

I am guessing the next Pope will not take the name Peter, and a lot of people will be scratching their heads wondering "what just happened?"

Of course the die hard Christians will make statements such as "never trust a prophecy which occurs outside of Scripture", but instead of taking that attitude, I think we all deserve to ask ourselves "What did just happen?"

The first book which ever published St. Malachy's Prophecy was a book which was published in 1595 by Arnold De Wyon. The book was called Lignum Vitae. This was the first time that the prophecy became part of public domain, and because of this fact, we can argue that the prophecy has not been altered at least from that point forward.

Arnold De Wyon claimed that he sourced the prophecy from the Vatican Archives, and the Vatican has never argued this fact. Perhaps St Malachy wrote the prophecy, perhaps he didnt, but the point that needs to be realized is that the Vatican was the source of the prophecy. They were the ones that provided Wyon with the material irregardless of its legitimacy.

The Vatican has always taken the stance that they do not recognize the prophecy as being Divine in its origin. With that being said, the Vatican has continued for over 500 years to continue to choose the exact same names on the prophecy. And this is the fly in the ointment when you are willing to honestly calculate the odds of this happening without complicit fraud occuring.

Since the prophecy was published there have been approximately 40 different Popes elected and they all chose the exact same name as the prophecy predicted. This is where the calculator needs to broken out to realize the obviously crime which has occured.

Let's look at a traditional lottery format. If anybody puts down a dollar bet and picks 6 out of 6 numbers correctly in a row, the odds of getting this correct in one try is 13,500,000 to 1. Each time you pick one additional number, you need to multiply the current odds by the number of balls left in the pool of potential number. So to pick 7 out of 7 the odds of the happening are 13,500,000 multiplied by the numbers left which would be 42 (567,000,000 to 1). To actually pull 40 out of 40 names accurately the odds of this happening without any shenanigans would be practically impossible to calculate. I do not own a calculator which is able to even calculate what the odds would be. This goes beyond trillions to one. This goes beyond quadrillions to one...this is truly off the charts.

Additionally, as compared to a lottery whereby once the number is pulled out of the pool and it can never been chosen again, Papal names can be chosen over and over. To take it to a further level of understanding, when you realize that there are more than 49 potential names for Popes, it compounds the odds even further.

I have no idea what will happen. The spiritual side of me wants to believe that a man by the name of Peter will show up on the scene and nourish his sheep. The skeptical side of me sees that the Vatican was hijacked several hundred years ago, and their scam is going to realized by those willing to look at this situation honestly.

The website Paddypower is the worlds largest wager accepting website which allows betting on the name of the next Pope. It appears the world is betting on Peter coming....only time will tell, and it looks like there is less and less of it every day.





If the world ever needed our Lord Jesus to return, it would be now.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

The first book which ever published St. Malachy's Prophecy was a book which was published in 1595 by Arnold De Wyon. The book was called Lignum Vitae. This was the first time that the prophecy became part of public domain, and because of this fact, we can argue that the prophecy has not been altered at least from that point forward.

Arnold De Wyon claimed that he sourced the prophecy from the Vatican Archives, and the Vatican has never argued this fact. Perhaps St Malachy wrote the prophecy, perhaps he didnt, but the point that needs to be realized is that the Vatican was the source of the prophecy. They were the ones that provided Wyon with the material irregardless of its legitimacy.

Arnold De Wyon actually claimed that someone else found the prophecy, about five years prior to his publication of it during a papal conclave. This person claimed to have brought it out of the Vatican Secret Archives, but it's impossible to say whether it was ever really located there. Given how extensive the Archives are, it's entirely possible that a brief list of future popes could be located somewhere without being noticed, and it's equally possible that someone could just go in and "discover" a piece of paper he smuggled in. Since we don't have the original, it's also entirely possible that it doesn't exist at all.

The Vatican has always taken the stance that they do not recognize the prophecy as being Divine in its origin. With that being said, the Vatican has continued for over 500 years to continue to choose the exact same names on the prophecy. And this is the fly in the ointment when you are willing to honestly calculate the odds of this happening without complicit fraud occuring.

The papal prophecies very seldom refer to names, and they aren't exact. They're extremely vague, actually, and sometimes appear to be wrong. Popes usually choose their regnal names based off of devotion to a saint (Pope Benedict XVI, for St. Benedict), or out of respect for a previous pope (Pope John Paul II, after his predecessor whose reign was cut tragically short).

As a side-note here, at the conclave where the prophecy was supposedly discovered, the candidate who best fit its description didn't ascend to the papacy. In another case, the pope who best fit the description came after the pope to whom it was applied, and really did not fit it at all.

I have no idea what will happen. The spiritual side of me wants to believe that a man by the name of Peter will show up on the scene and nourish his sheep. The skeptical side of me sees that the Vatican was hijacked several hundred years ago, and their scam is going to realized by those willing to look at this situation honestly.

The Vatican doesn't view the prophecy with any seriousness, but if there were a conspiracy, what would be its motive? If they forged the prophecy in the 16th century and then kept choosing popes according to its dictates knowing that it was a forgery, then what would they hope to gain? Wouldn't someone have eventually said that it was made up, decided to leave, and taught that the Church was intentionally picking popes according to a hoax? Even one person, over the course of five centuries, could have done that, but no one ever has. Many of the cardinals have been very holy men, very devoted to their faith. Many are probably prepared to die for the Truth, and some of them actually have (most notably an English martyr during the reign of King Henry VIII who was beheaded immediately after being made a cardinal). The idea that they would make the decision to continue such a cover up is in itself confusing.

 

[Saint Malachy]

You asked what the motivation would be to conspire to mislead. Some people have argued that the papacy was hijacked which would be the motivation. I am not saying that this has happened, but allow me to illustrate a compelling reason for this mindset.

Let go back in time several hundred years to the time right before Arnold De Wyon first published the prophecy. Some people are of the opinion that there was a power struggle inside of the church. The position of Pope was held as the most powerful position on the planet, and we all know that power has the potential to corrupt, and absolute power has the potential to corrupt absolutely.

Some people are of the opinion that one of the "potential popes" of the time conspired to manufacture the prophecy and include his name as the next name on the list. They did this in hopes of swaying the votes of the Cardinals at the time. Afterall, producing a document which might have been inspired by one's Creator presents a compelling argument at that time to people as to why they might choose to elect a man whose name appears on a prophecy as opposed to choosing a man who does not have his name listed. Once in power, that Pope would be able to hand pick the next round of sympathetic Cardinals who would be willing to continue the fraud.

Once again I am not saying that this has happened, but if you want me to produce a reason why the Popes have all chosen to follow this fake prophecy up until now, I believe this is a legitimate enough potential reason that should at the very least, be considered as a possibility.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I have no idea what will happen. The spiritual side of me wants to believe that a man by the name of Peter will show up on the scene and nourish his sheep. The skeptical side of me sees that the Vatican was hijacked several hundred years ago, and their scam is going to realized by those willing to look at this situation honestly.

You're promoting the idea - here - during Lent - that the Vatican was hijacked and is a scam now?

So are you suggesting that Jesus lied and the Gates of Hell have overcome the Church?

For if the Papacy is a scam and has been for several hundred years, then that is exatly what need to have happened.

The See of Peter stands between the gates of hell and the Church - and so the gates of hell must defeat the See of Peter to get to the Church, and if the See of Peter is now a scam, then that is, in effect what must have happened.

Jesus said this would NEVER happen.

So why is anyone even suggesting such a thing here?

 

[thereselittleflower]

You asked what the motivation would be to conspire to mislead. Some people have argued that the papacy was hijacked which would be the motivation. I am not saying that this has happened, but allow me to illustrate a compelling reason for this mindset.

Let go back in time several hundred years to the time right before Arnold De Wyon first published the prophecy. Some people are of the opinion that there was a power struggle inside of the church. The position of Pope was held as the most powerful position on the planet, and we all know that power has the potential to corrupt, and absolute power has the potential to corrupt absolutely.

Some people are of the opinion that one of the "potential popes" of the time conspired to manufacture the prophecy and include his name as the next name on the list. They did this in hopes of swaying the votes of the Cardinals at the time. Afterall, producing a document which might have been inspired by one's Creator presents a compelling argument at that time to people as to why they might choose to elect a man whose name appears on a prophecy as opposed to choosing a man who does not have his name listed. Once in power, that Pope would be able to hand pick the next round of sympathetic Cardinals who would be willing to continue the fraud.

Once again I am not saying that this has happened, but if you want me to produce a reason why the Popes have all chosen to follow this fake prophecy up until now, I believe this is a legitimate enough potential reason that should at the very least, be considered as a possibility.

No - to consider this is a possiblity is to consider that Jesus lied.

Why are you promoting consideration of something with this implication in OBOB?