The progression of YEC'ism

[Vance]

I posted this on another thread, but I wanted to expand on it a bit. This is the progression of thought by those who insist that their interpretation of Scripture is correct. This torch is now being carried by the YEC's.

The progression:

The world is flat because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

Well, OK, the Earth is spherical, but the universe revolves around it because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

Well, OK, so the Earth revolves around the Sun, but evolution is a lie, it simply doesn't happen, because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

Well, OK, evolution happens, but only micro evoution, not macro, because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

Well, OK, we see where macro evolution happens as well, but this evolution never creates any "new information", because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

And we *mean* it this time . . .

And you wonder why non-Christians have a difficult time taking us seriously. This is not a matter of Christians slowly succumbing to naturalistic philosophy, it is about Christians taking dogmatic and absolutist views about things based on a particular interpretation of Scripture. By doing this, they create an atmosphere of "either/or" and present this choice to our young people. YEC is truth, if you don't believe in YEC, you are not really taking the Bible at its word and might was well not believe anything in it. Then they discover that YEC is NOT truth and they begin to doubt EVERYTHING in Scripture. I see it happening all the time in our youth groups. It is not the evolutionist or old-earth teaching that is driving our kids to choose the "world", it is this dogmatic teaching by certain Christian groups. Satan at work under the most devious of all guises.

And it is not just kids, it is adults who might actually look seriously at the Gospel message if it wasn't for these groups spouting YEC'ism *as* Christianity. I am convinced that we have lost more souls due to YEC'ism than we will ever lose because of the teaching of evolution.

 

[Serapha]

I posted this on another thread, but I wanted to expand on it a bit. This is the progression of thought by those who insist that their interpretation of Scripture is correct. This torch is now being carried by the YEC's.

The progression:

The world is flat because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

Well, OK, the Earth is spherical, but the universe revolves around it because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

Well, OK, so the Earth revolves around the Sun, but evolution is a lie, it simply doesn't happen, because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

Well, OK, evolution happens, but only micro evoution, not macro, because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

Well, OK, we see where macro evolution happens as well, but this evolution never creates any "new information", because to say otherwise is to contradict the Bible.

And we *mean* it this time . . .

And you wonder why non-Christians have a difficult time taking us seriously. This is not a matter of Christians slowly succumbing to naturalistic philosophy, it is about Christians taking dogmatic and absolutist views about things based on a particular interpretation of Scripture. By doing this, they create an atmosphere of "either/or" and present this choice to our young people. YEC is truth, if you don't believe in YEC, you are not really taking the Bible at its word and might was well not believe anything in it. Then they discover that YEC is NOT truth and they begin to doubt EVERYTHING in Scripture. I see it happening all the time in our youth groups. It is not the evolutionist or old-earth teaching that is driving our kids to choose the "world", it is this dogmatic teaching by certain Christian groups. Satan at work under the most devious of all guises.

And it is not just kids, it is adults who might actually look seriously at the Gospel message if it wasn't for these groups spouting YEC'ism *as* Christianity. I am convinced that we have lost more souls due to YEC'ism than we will ever lose because of the teaching of evolution.

Thank you for your opinion.... but it is your opinion.

Perhaps the youth are leaving your youth groups because "satan" is "at work under the most devious of all guises".... that being within your youth groups.

There is nothing new under the sun... therefore, I may know that there is nothing new in your church. It is the same problem that has existed forever in the church.... false doctrines have creeped in the back door, or in some denominations... the door is flung open to encourage false doctrines to enter.

I have yet to read anywhere that YEC is a part of the plan of salvation..... but on the other hand... I have yet to read anywhere that evolution is a part of the plan of salvation either.


...and the latest statistic that I read indicated that hypocrisy was the primary reason for people leaving mainstream Christianity. Perhaps you would like to provide supporting documentation for your "theory"?




~malaka~

 

[Vance]

But see, I think YEC'ism IS hypocrisy in the sense that it is intellectually dishonest. Not by those who blindly spout AIG, ICR or Hovind mis-statements, they are just honestly repeating what they hear. I am talking about YEC scientists who continue to argue theories that are shown to be invalid. Hovind is a prime example of hypocrisy in action. Even AIG has called him to the carpet for his blatant falsehoods, but he has refused to stop using falsified arguments. His argument is that he has a lot invested in his seminar and materials and tapes, and just because he can not prove his arguments to be true, and even if it is possible they are false, he will continue to use them until they are PROVEN false. THat is dishonesty for the sake of commerce, and THAT is hypocrisy.

One YEC even told me with a straight face that it is OK to argue positions that may not be true if it will result in people rejecting evolution and accepting a young earth. THAT is hypocrisy.

But you are right, it is not a salvation issue. But YEC'ism raises it to that level by telling people that failing to believe in YEC'ism is failing to believe God's Word. So, when they come to realize that YEC'ism is a bunch of nonsense, their belief in God's Word is undermined. Therein lies the danger.

 

[Serapha]

Would you mind using the Bible as a basis in your discussions? Hypocrisy is covered in the Bible as is "false teachings"... so let me know where "the doctrine of YEC" (whatever that is) is condemned in the Word of God....

~malaka~

 

[Vance]

Are saying that teaching something about Scripture that is false is not a False Doctrine? If I honestly believe that what most YEC's say about Genesis is false, should I not call it a false doctrine?

 

[Serapha]

Are saying that teaching something about Scripture that is false is not a False Doctrine? If I honestly believe that what most YEC's say about Genesis is false, should I not call it a false doctrine?

and exactly "what" about "YEC-ism" is a false doctrine?


What you "beleive" is not substantiation for biblically stating that "YEC-ism" is a false doctrine.

You can call anything you want a "false doctrine"... But when I call something a false doctrine, I back it up with scripture, or I keep my mouth shut. I am simply asking what scriptures call "YEC-ism" a false doctrine?


~malaka~

 

[Vance]

Again, we can go into a full analysis if you like, but in short, it is this:

YEC's doctrine is that the ONLY correct way to read Genesis is to read YOM as meaning 24 hour days. There are many instances in Scripture when it does not mean that, but means an indefinite period of time (I can give you some examples tommorow if you like, but I would assume you know of them). Given the full nature of the Scriptural and Creation evidence, I believe this doctrine is false. If you want a full analysis of why, I will be happy to quote one such analysis tommorrow. I have no need to "reinvent that wheel". I am too tired now, it being well past my bedtime! :0)

 

[Serapha]

Again, we can go into a full analysis if you like, but in short, it is this:

YEC's doctrine is that the ONLY correct way to read Genesis is to read YOM as meaning 24 hour days. There are many instances in Scripture when it does not mean that, but means an indefinite period of time (I can give you some examples tommorow if you like, but I would assume you know of them). Given the full nature of the Scriptural and Creation evidence, I believe this doctrine is false. If you want a full analysis of why, I will be happy to quote one such analysis tommorrow. I have no need to "reinvent that wheel". I am too tired now, it being well past my bedtime! :0)

Again, you are posting on an assumption of "I believe". The Bible is clear about false doctrines, and you don't have to rely on "I believe", for one can stand on "the Word of God says".....

~malaka~

 

[mountaingoat]

pss What's YEC?

 

[Vance]

Fine, I will refer you to a full Scriptural analysis of why the young earth reading of Genesis one is false. You can read that here:

http://answers.org/newlook/NEWLOOK.HTM#Top

Which also contains an explanation of why the young earth teaching is a false doctrine.

There is another very good study by Hugh Ross called "Biblical Evidence for Long Creation Days" which sets out the Scriptural study and actually shows how the Scriptures argue for long days rather than 24 hour days. I have this on my palm, but can't seem to find the source. I will track it down.

 

[Serapha]

Fine, I will refer you to a full Scriptural analysis of why the young earth reading of Genesis one is false. You can read that here:

http://answers.org/newlook/NEWLOOK.HTM#Top

Which also contains an explanation of why the young earth teaching is a false doctrine.

There is another very good study by Hugh Ross called "Biblical Evidence for Long Creation Days" which sets out the Scriptural study and actually shows how the Scriptures argue for long days rather than 24 hour days. I have this on my palm, but can't seem to find the source. I will track it down.

My friend,

THAT is a "red herring"...which is something to divert the attention away from the issue as posted.

If your argument is that I should buy a book and read it... then here's my advice to you...


but a Bible and read it. The scriptural support is there for a literal 24-day of creation.

Now... the issue as you have continue to post it is that YEC-ism is a false doctrine... I am still looking for that proof. If your total basis for YEC-ism to be a false doctrine is the length of the day in Genesis, then you have failed to provide evidence simply by referring me to a book.


~malaka~

 

[Sinai]

pss What's YEC?

Young earth creationist.

Also known as young universe creationist.

The concepts are discussed under the second group of options on this thread.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Would you mind using the Bible as a basis in your discussions? Hypocrisy is covered in the Bible as is "false teachings"... so let me know where "the doctrine of YEC" (whatever that is) is condemned in the Word of God....

~malaka~

YEC is not condemned. However, lying to support YEC would fall under bearing false witness.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

pss What's YEC?

Young Earth Creationism.

 

[Vance]

Malaka:

I am not sure what your definition of a false doctrine is, but mine is this. It is a doctrine or teaching that is false. Not that complicated. I have provided you with the arguments for why I think that one teaching of YEC'ism is false, and thus a false doctrine. They teach that the only correct reading of "yom" in Genesis is a 24 hour day. I have shown why I believe this is false, and thus why I think it is a false doctrine.

True, this is only one of the teachings they propound which I think are false. I could provide a long list of them, if you like, and point out why I think each of them are false, based on a reading of Scripture and the study of God's Creation.

As for a Bible, I have plenty and read them all the time, I am not sure what your point is there.

The bottom line is that AIG and the other YEC organizations argue certain scientific facts as true that are simply not true. THis is bearing false witness. They also argue a number of interpretative doctrines (short days, global flood, no death before the Fall, etc) which I believe are false (and thus I believe they are false doctrines). I am not sure why you are having a hard time with this. I pointed you to Scriptural analyses as to why I think they are false, rather than quote them at length or take the time to summarize them for you, but you call that a red herring. You asked for Biblical support and I provided it, I am not sure what else you want.