The problem with "Every man is a potential rapist"

[Paidiske]

The point is, there is no correlation between a woman dressing immodestly and rape. Rape is not caused by a woman's immodesty causing a man to lose control.

 

[Gadarene]

Source please.

Let's give you an example more relevant to the overall issue of Gamergate.

Milo Yiannopoulous - remember him? Trigger-happy alt-right journo who made a name for himself covering Gamergate?

When it kicked off, this is what he got in the mail:

No outcry from the usual suspects about how there's a massive problem about violence against men the way there is when a single well-known woman gets a mean tweet. No wall-to-wall coverage of it along with hearty denunciations you see whenever Saint Anita or whoever receives a word of negative feedback.

No acknowledgement either that *both* sides of GG have been on the receiving end of abuse.

This is why the BUT WOMEN ARE ABUSED MORE ONLINE bleat is utterly hollow. Not only is harassment ignored by those same people when it's directed at men (and as I posted, men get *more* threats online that women do, but the focus is almost entirely on women) but it's selectively applied - and curiously, it's always the critics of feminism whose abuse gets called out. Never the abuse coming from the other side of the aisle.

The internet abuse canard is simply a gambit to silence political opponents.

 

[Kylie]

And that's great. Really. I'm all for it. Big fan. But...

Here we have women like @KTS in http://www.christianforums.com/thre...otential-rapist.7966658/page-18#post-70360031 preparing a weapon to bash some guy in the elevator. I find that troubling. I mean, it's good to be prepared to defend yourself. I never step outside without a weapon. But I don't get it ready for use just because I happen to be in an elevator with a stranger, you know? That, to me, speaks more of fearfulness than empowerment.

Oh, for crying out loud. I was preparing to protect myself in the same way that I get ready to swerve suddenly if that car on the side street pulls out right in front of me while I'm driving.

 

[Radrook]

I'm not really talking *to* you, to be honest. Just quoting your post to make a point to others in this thread.

I don't see the relevance to my post. I never claimed that the male street passerby is the main or sole concern.

 

[Kylie]

Baloney.

I was a young man once. I was in a hyper masculine environment (The Australian Army) and sex took up a good amount of all my available waking thoughts. We talked about it, boasted about it, and made plans to get it. That and the specifications of weapons systems we were unlikely to ever see were the two things that we talked about. An yet, I can honestly say I have never. EVER. had sex with anyone who did not respond with an enthusiastic yes. Any man who claims to be "unable to control himself" is, IMHO, either lying or criminally insane. No third alternative.

Agreed. I seriously doubt that any rape was committed because the guy was just too horny.

 

[Kylie]

....you don't know about trash-talking during online games? Do I really have to prove this?

I'm sorry, I thought you were saying that men cope the same amount of threats as women. If it happens, there should be evidence of it, yeah?

 

[Armoured]

But you never have to face the threat of being attacked just for being the gender you are. I do.

And I think it's great that you are raising your daughter to be able to look after herself and be self confident and assertive. But part of looking after yourself is being prepared for trouble, and since 1 in four women will be raped in their lives, that certainly is a trouble your daughter may face. I hope she never does.

If I may try a comparison...?

I have been attacked based on my skin colour more than once. Racial epithets, the works.

Am I justified in assuming ill intent and a defensive posture every time I encounter members of the racial group from which the people who attacked me came?

 

[Armoured]

Agreed. I seriously doubt that any rape was committed because the guy was just too horny.

We don't dismiss other crimes as unavoidable in the heat of passion, I see no reason to think of rape differently.

 

[Gadarene]

Then perhaps you can show me a source that claims that the 1 in 4 women will be raped is wrong?

It's the other stat you're quoting - that the majority of rapists are men. The CDC stats I unpicked for you earlier would indicate otherwise. A good quantity of rapists are women, but no-one is suggesting profiling them.

When did I ever say that ALL men should be punished for being rapists? I never did.

Um...I know? I never said you did? Try reading what you're responding to? I said profiling, not punishing?

When you can show that the chances of being the victim of a terrorist attack by a Muslim are the same chances that a woman will be raped by a man, then we can talk.

Irrelevant. You have not justified the cutoff point for why a (purported) 90% proportion of rapists being men justifies bigoted profiling of men as I asked. Maybe consider doing so - if you can.

Until then, you are just being a jerk.

The usual response from women when you call them out on their bigotry. "You're a bad man!" Please. I've been accused of way worse for calling out people like you.

You want to provide a source for the claim that black people are inherently more criminal than white people?

Ooh, well this is an interesting bit of projection isn't it? I never claimed black people are inherently more criminal, I simply made the same manner of observation about their general criminality that you did about men and rape - namely that black people commit disproportionately more crimes.

So given that you took the same sort of statement you made about men but directed at black people as a claim that black people are inherently more criminal, that would suggest you think men are inherently more rapist than women.

Interesting, KTS. Very interesting. You have a lot to work on, it would seem. (Or y'know, again, you just need to read what you're replying to.)

 

[Radrook]

Then perhaps you can show me a source that claims that the 1 in 4 women will be raped is wrong?



When did I ever say that ALL men should be punished for being rapists? I never did.

But like I said, 1 in 4 women will be raped. (And I'm going to use that statistic despite your whinging because you have been unable to provide a better one. You just complain about it).

When you can show that the chances of being the victim of a terrorist attack by a Muslim are the same chances that a woman will be raped by a man, then we can talk. Until then, you are just being a jerk.



You want to provide a source for the claim that black people are inherently more criminal than white people?

How the heck did this suddenly become a black vs white issue?

 

[Radrook]

We don't dismiss other crimes as unavoidable in the heat of passion, I see no reason to think of rape differently.

Horniness is definitely NOT the sole cause of rape. There is also hatred. A need to humiliate based on previous rejections. An inability to function sexually otherwise. True, heat of passion is not a viable defense in a court of law for any crime. However, provocation does figure into the penalty chosen. If I insult someone repeatedly and he clobbers me in the heat of emotion, my instigation will indeed be taken into consideration.

If a woman admits unecessarily exposing herself naked to a man and the man makes an advance which she considers excessively aggressive-her provocation will be taken into serious consideration as well.

 

[Gadarene]

I don't see the relevance to my post. I never claimed that the male street passerby is the main or sole concern.

You didn't, no. But as I mentioned, I wasn't talking to you. Just quoting you.

 

[Gadarene]

I'm sorry, I thought you were saying that men cope the same amount of threats as women.

There's you either not reading or moving the goalposts again. Might want to work on that too.

If it happens, there should be evidence of it, yeah?

Not that this was my actual claim in this particular exchange, but as it happens, yes they get more threats online than women, and I've already posted evidence from Pew demonstrating this, in reply to you. Did you not read it?

 

[Gadarene]

If I may try a comparison...?

I have been attacked based on my skin colour more than once. Racial epithets, the works.

Am I justified in assuming ill intent and a defensive posture every time I encounter members of the racial group from which the people who attacked me came?

We tried that. It's totes ok because men are more rapey than other races are racist. This is totally logical and objective.

 

[Armoured]

Horniness is definitely NOT the sole cause of rape. There is also hatred. A need to humiliate based on previous rejections. An inability to function sexually otherwise.

These justifications sound decidedly ad hoc. Much like that claim about the etymology of "rapier".

 

[Kylie]

....in a thread where we are literally talking about profiling men as potential rapists - and all the potential for false positives that throws up - you claim this?

Oh please.

If I prepare to defend myself in case a guy tries to attack me, and then he doesn't attack me, what harm comes of it? Absolutely none.

If I don't prepare to defend myself and he does attack me, what harm comes of it? I become another statistic.

You ever learn how to do a risk assessment? You ask yourself what the likely outcome is, and how likely it is to happen.

How likely is it that a woman will be raped? During her life, she has a 25% chance. So, quite likely. How serious are the consequences? High to very high. And yet you complain when women try to prepare for dealing with it? Get over yourself.

 

[Kylie]

Let's give you an example more relevant to the overall issue of Gamergate.

Milo Yiannopoulous - remember him? Trigger-happy alt-right journo who made a name for himself covering Gamergate?

When it kicked off, this is what he got in the mail:

No outcry from the usual suspects about how there's a massive problem about violence against men the way there is when a single well-known woman gets a mean tweet. No wall-to-wall coverage of it along with hearty denunciations you see whenever Saint Anita or whoever receives a word of negative feedback.

No acknowledgement either that *both* sides of GG have been on the receiving end of abuse.

This is why the BUT WOMEN ARE ABUSED MORE ONLINE bleat is utterly hollow. Not only is harassment ignored by those same people when it's directed at men (and as I posted, men get *more* threats online that women do, but the focus is almost entirely on women) but it's selectively applied - and curiously, it's always the critics of feminism whose abuse gets called out. Never the abuse coming from the other side of the aisle.

The internet abuse canard is simply a gambit to silence political opponents.

And how many things like this did he get? Because I'm betting that what he got was only a small percentage of what the women got?

 

[Dave-W]

There are jurisdictions where "rape" is literally an offence that women are legally unable to be found guilty of, while men are.

And rightly so, given the FBI definition of the word.

 

[Jack of Spades]

Perhaps you can show me where women have made such comments to men?

How about if I show some anti-discrimination and anti-profiling laws instead? Last time I checked those have the mentioning of "based on sex" along with the other things.

 

[Kylie]

If I may try a comparison...?

I have been attacked based on my skin colour more than once. Racial epithets, the works.

Am I justified in assuming ill intent and a defensive posture every time I encounter members of the racial group from which the people who attacked me came?

Perhaps.

But I hope you don't think that when I say I prepare myself that I'm like getting into a stance like a baseball player about to swing. Because that's just silly.