The problem with "Every man is a potential rapist"

[Armoured]

I certainly don't think that EVERY man is going to commit rape if pushed.

However, I do think that I have to be ready to defend myself, because I can never tell if a particular man is the kind of man who will rape me if he has the opportunity and motive.

I was heading to work today, and I caught the lift at my local train station. A man also got in the lift. I found myself preparing to use my bag as a weapon if he tried anything. Not actually getting into a ready-to-attack stance, but I was aware of what he was doing and watching for any signs of threatening behaviour. And this is something I do often, particularly when alone.

Somehow, I get the feeling that men don't need to do this if they are alone in a lift with a woman. But do you do it if you were alone in the lift with another man?

Depends on the man. And yes, I have been in violent altercations with strangers before. (at least, like, half, weren't even my fault!) so I don't quite see how it's fair to get defensive around all men. I don't have an answer, though. All I can tell you is that I'm trying to raise my daughter to be a self confident, assertive and empowered woman who can look after herself in any situation, not to be a shrinking violet always fearful of attack and constantly on the defensive.

 

[Gadarene]

What?

Okay, let me spell it out for you. A women makes the comment that there is a lot of sexism in the gaming community. As a result, she is threatened with death and told that she deserves to be raped. These threats come primarily from men (I'm not aware of any women making the threats against her). Don't tell me it doesn't happen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy

Why do we never see women making similar threats against men like this?

Guys get "threatened with death and rape" for killing someone in a CoD deathmatch. And crickets from something-must-be-done brigade.

 

[Armoured]

Etymology online gives this:

rape (n.1)
early 14c., "booty, prey;" mid-14c., "forceful seizure; plundering, robbery, extortion," from Anglo-French rap, rape, and directly from Latin rapere "seize" (see rape (v.)). Meaning "act of abducting a woman or sexually violating her or both" is from early 15c., but perhaps late 13c. in Anglo-Latin.

rape (v.)
late 14c., "seize prey; abduct, take by force," from rape (n.) and from Anglo-French raper (Old French rapir) "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from past participle of Latin rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid).

Latin rapere was used for "sexually violate," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprare "to defile, ravish, violate," related to stuprum (n.), literally "disgrace." Meaning "to abduct (a woman), ravish;" also "seduce (a man)" is from early 15c. in English. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low German and Dutch rapen in the same sense.

Jinx!

 

[Jack of Spades]

What?

Okay, let me spell it out for you. A women makes the comment that there is a lot of sexism in the gaming community. As a result, she is threatened with death and told that she deserves to be raped. These threats come primarily from men (I'm not aware of any women making the threats against her). Don't tell me it doesn't happen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy

Why do we never see women making similar threats against men like this?

I misread your earlier message a bit.

Sure it happens, but it's not a problem related to male sex.

I am willing to discuss the problem further when the profiling based on the offenders biological sex is dropped, and there is an attempt to find some other traits or qualities that are commonly held by the people who threaten others with rape.

 

[Paidiske]

I don't have an answer, though. All I can tell you is that I'm trying to raise my daughter to be a self confident, assertive and empowered woman who can look after herself in any situation, not to be a shrinking violet always fearful of attack and constantly on the defensive.

Being self-confident and empowered is actually the first and most important part of self-defence; a strong and capable attitude means that someone looking for vulnerability will look elsewhere.

 

[Armoured]

Being self-confident and empowered is actually the first and most important part of self-defence; a strong and capable attitude means that someone looking for vulnerability will look elsewhere.

See, I think that's a big part of it, and I DO worry that in the midst of culturally shifting attitudes about sexual assault and rape, instead of teaching women to be assertive and confident, we're teaching them to be fearful victims. Again, I'm not claiming to have any answers, I just worry that some of the gains we're making are causing long term negative effects.

 

[Armoured]

I misread your earlier message a bit.

Sure it happens, but it's not a problem related to male sex.

I am willing to discuss the problem further when the profiling based on the offenders biological sex is dropped, and there is an attempt to find some other traits or qualities that are commonly held by the people who threaten others with rape.

Seriously though, have you ever heard a female gamer threaten to rape someone? Like, ever?

 

[Paidiske]

In my experience - for what it's worth - we're not teaching women to be fearful victims.

There's a lot of empowerment in giving women permission to name rape and other assaults for what they are, to be able to talk about them, to be able to critique the attitudes which give rise to them. It's a powerful antidote to fearfulness and passivity.

 

[Armoured]

And someone acknowledge my interesting and useful sword fact, darnit!

 

[Paidiske]

Please demonstrate the usefulness of your fascinating sword fact?

 

[Gadarene]

Wow, now I think you're just being a jerk.

The feeling is entirely mutual, madam, I assure you.

When a quarter of women will be raped, and there's a 90% chance that rape will be committed by a man, don't you think that women are entitled to be cautious?

Again, your stats are wrong.

And yet again, you're being inconsistent.

Let's look at some parallels.

A few Muslims blow things up, people get scared and suggest profiling all Muslims simply because they are Muslim? RACIST! ISLAMOPHOBIC!

Black Lives Matter is criticised because they don't factor in the fact that black people disproportionately commit more crime? No, not allowed. RACIST! WHITE PRIVILEGE!

Men get presumed to be potential rapists simply because they are men, and most rapists in a legal and social system where women aren't considered rapists are men, funnily enough.

Sexist?

"Actually no, it's perfectly fine and in fact YOU'RE a privileged misogynist for pointing the inconsistency out."

One of these things is not like the others......

 

[Armoured]

In my experience - for what it's worth - we're not teaching women to be fearful victims.

There's a lot of empowerment in giving women permission to name rape and other assaults for what they are, to be able to talk about them, to be able to critique the attitudes which give rise to them. It's a powerful antidote to fearfulness and passivity.

And that's great. Really. I'm all for it. Big fan. But...

Here we have women like @KTS in http://www.christianforums.com/thre...otential-rapist.7966658/page-18#post-70360031 preparing a weapon to bash some guy in the elevator. I find that troubling. I mean, it's good to be prepared to defend yourself. I never step outside without a weapon. But I don't get it ready for use just because I happen to be in an elevator with a stranger, you know? That, to me, speaks more of fearfulness than empowerment.

 

[Armoured]

Please demonstrate the usefulness of your fascinating sword fact?

I just did. You can use it to call people on made up etymologies about "rape".

You can also use the hilt of any rapier you just happen to have lying around the kitchen if you can't find a grater when you need one.

 

[Gadarene]

In my experience - for what it's worth - we're not teaching women to be fearful victims.

yes you are

"hey y'all you should totally profile half the planet because THEY MIGHT RAPE YOU, isn't this so empowering? I love the thought that I need to watch myself for the rest of my life around 50% of the population because I read some bigoted feminist blog somewhere and didn't think it through"

There's a lot of empowerment in giving women permission to name rape and other assaults for what they are, to be able to talk about them, to be able to critique the attitudes which give rise to them. It's a powerful antidote to fearfulness and passivity.

Bigotry often is empowering. Look at Trump supporters.

 

[Jack of Spades]

Seriously though, have you ever heard a female gamer threaten to rape someone? Like, ever?

No, I haven't heard of it.

But I am not being unreasonable, I'm simply expecting to have the same anti-discrimination and anti-profiling luxuries that every other demographic group enjoys.

There is a double-standard on acceptable discriminatory language and profiling when it comes to men, and I have every interest of not ignoring it.

 

[Armoured]

No, I haven't heard of it.

But I am not being unreasonable, I'm simply expecting to have the same anti-discrimination and anti-profiling luxuries that every other demographic group enjoys.

There is a double-standard on acceptable discriminatory language and profiling when it comes to men, and I have every interest of not ignoring it.

I'm not endorsing any sort of double standard. I'm really not. That said, however, there are behaviours that are more prevalent in some groups than others, and to deny it is less than constructive.

 

[Paidiske]

Armoured, that's what we're taught to do from the first time we leave our mother's sides.

Don't walk alone. Don't go out after dark. Walk with your head up, shoulders back and keys between your fingers so you can use them as a weapon. Measure how far the steps behind you sound.

Heck, when I was a uni student, the first time around, friends gave me a personal alarm to carry as I travelled to and from campus.

This is the suite of safety measures we're taught as necessary for basic survival. It's not new or being created by contemporary discourse. It comes down through our mothers and grandmothers and their foremothers (there's a famous story in my family of the day my grandmother shot a would-be rapist in the knee cap. When police arrived she learned he was wanted for several rapes already). It's probably been common lore of womankind since we were in caves.

 

[Gadarene]

I'm not endorsing any sort of double standard. I'm really not. That said, however, there are behaviours that are more prevalent in some groups than others, and to deny it is less than constructive.

Again, "prevalent behaviours" are ignored when discussing most other demographic issues - I've mentioned a few already.

They're either relevant, or they're not. But having them magically be relevant only when men are the topic of discussion most certainly *is* a double standard.

 

[Gadarene]

Don't walk alone. Don't go out after dark. Walk with your head up, shoulders back and keys between your fingers so you can use them as a weapon. Measure how far the steps behind you sound.

I either do or have been warned to do all of these things myself. Again, your issues are not unique to you.

 

[Radrook]

The problem is that not all men have the same control ovr their passions. That can be dur=e to two factors:

1. Age
2. Heredity

Age:

During Early manhood we men are overwhelmed by CONSTANT thoughts of sex and the CONSTANT reaction of our body to such thoughts. That is why the Bible recommends that marriage is better than to burn with passion because at an early stage we men are literally on fire. If two people who are highly sexually oriented temperamentally produce a child, that child is likely to be supercharged at adolescence and manhood.. For such a man petting is like flooring the accelerator on a car accelerator and keeping it there. Stopping becomes virtually unimaginable.

A woman who is unaware of this and engages such a man in what she considers casual petting, and casually declares she wants to stop, might find a problem on her hands because of his vehement insistence that he cannot.

That insistence might even impel him to try to force her to continue. Now, this fellow did not plan to rape the woman but found himself doing so and then regretting it. So all rape isn't premeditated but can occur under such a circumstances. That is why marriage is recommended if we are under severe sexual pressure as the Bible tells us.

1 Cor 7:
8. Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 10