The Problem with Divine Providence

[ex_theologian]

This world looks exactly like a world without divine providence would look...The Christian's #1, 2, and 3 response are something like, "Well, we don't know the ways of God...or...we can't understand the 'big picture.'" These questions have troubled me to no end and started the ball rolling in my eventual loss of faith and career change. Why, for example, does God seem to "bless" mainly Americans and those in the West, while apparently abandoning the majority of people in the world? Why does God require us to beg and plead in order to do something good? Why do believers almost always ignore the bad and thank God for the good?

Consider this...you have a king who sits by and watches while his people are raped, starve to death, die from simple infections, and suffer for no reason. Then, the king, after some people beg and scream for days, decides to come and save one person from being killed. He then continues his passive watching. Would anyone say, "He is such a great king! Oh, the miracles and good things he has done! How great is his mercy!"?

Why would God, who created the world, include bacteria and viruses whose sole purpose is to bring death and suffering? Did the devil create microorganisms? Why would he create the majority of species with the drive and capacity to kill and maim other species? Either it is a strange God who rules the universe, or there is some other explanation for the world.

 

[jayem]

The standard answer for that (which is a variation on the problem of evil) is that the world was perfect upon creation, but corrupted by Adam's disobedience. It still poses some difficulty in understanding the rationale of a God who would punish a being to whom He gave "free will" and knew would chose to disobey. The logical dilemma is to reconcile omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence in a single deity.

However, the state of the world could be compatible with dualism, which was a theological doctrine of the Gnostics. This is the idea that there are two, equally potent supreme beings, one good and one evil. Everything that happens reflects the constant struggle of these two deities. Sometimes one has the upper hand, and sometimes the other.

 

[Lifesaver]

God also punishes people. And people, behaving the way they do, bring punishment unto them.

As for the king analogy, I propose some changes:

The king sits in his throne, and he gave the people everything they have. He gave them also the rules for which to live accordingly, which would allow a good life for everyone.
And yet, people disregard them, fight, disrespect him and insult everything and everyone. Even so, to those who are sorry, and to those who beg him for mercy, he shows it to them. Not to mention all the cases when he gave his people many good things when they didn't even ask for it.

 

[Racheal]

I believe that God created the world and us exactly how he wanted us to be... he wanted us to rebel against him. He needed sin so that when we do worship him there is so much more meaning to it... love is only as strong as the obstacles it faces.

 

[ex_theologian]

Rachael, that's a pretty terrible idea, IMO. So, God wants our praise to be meaningful, so he stacks the deck against humanity so that they torture and rape and murder and suffer horribly? At this very moment, there are millions of sex slaves in the world; millions are in agony; lives are being broken; people are committing suicide. Yes, that makes God so much more worthy of, uh, worship. What a mighty God we serve?!

 

[Racheal]

Sorry.

 

[moosiz]

"This world looks exactly like a world without divine providence would look...The Christian's #1, 2, and 3 response are something like, "Well, we don't know the ways of God...or...we can't understand the 'big picture.'" These questions have troubled me to no end and started the ball rolling in my eventual loss of faith and career change. Why, for example, does God seem to "bless" mainly Americans and those in the West, while apparently abandoning the majority of people in the world? Why does God require us to beg and plead in order to do something good? Why do believers almost always ignore the bad and thank God for the good?"


Yeh I have suffered the same frustration as you have in regards to the "sometimes we just have to accept.." But in a lot of ways it is true that we don't know whats going on, but all I know is that no other religions have promised anything close to what Jesus promised to those who trusted him. I look at it in this way, if this God is promising to do all these things for me, at least I'll give him the chance to work in my life and if I go without one prayer answered then I know he can't be there. It is not true that God blesses those only in the West but the most logical explanation if it did happen is that it is mainly dominated by other faiths that exclude God out of their lives. If it's mainly muslim, hindu, buddhist etc. then these people are rejecting God through their lives. God doesn't sit back and watch, he gave US the control because that's what we've always wanted and look what a mess we've made of everything. To escape all of it, you ASK for his help. Instead of blaming him, give him a chance to save and to love and that comes through a choice for the person involved to ask for help and for his amazing salvation. The most beautiful thing about it all is that God is so much greater in the dark times. I find myself falling away from my faith when things are going good, but its in the hard and depressing, no hope times that he's there. Surely thats when its important?

 

[ex_theologian]

moosiz,
First, you shouldn't follow a religion based on the promise you're going to get, but on whether or not it's true. Besides, Mormonism and Islam all promise some pretty fantastic things, so why not give them a shot? And Jesus' promises? That we'll suffer and weep and be persecuted? That when we die, we might enter the kingdom without some of our limbs or be treated like "good and faithful servants"? I'm not trying to put down the Christian promise, but keep it in context.

Now, about the US. That's a dangerous idea (and I'm sure GW holds it). It's suggesting that God punishes non-Christians with poverty and early death and rewards cultures with a lot of Christians with grand riches (which, by the way, actually contributes to the poverty of the other cultures -- I guess we are the hands of God!). Plus, there are quite a few desperately poor countries that have a predominance of Christians (much of Latin America, Mexico, the Phillipines, Korea) that are dirt poor. The theory doesn't hold.

 

[Nathan David]

It's God's will that God's will looks exactly like random chance.

 

[ex_theologian]

moosiz,
I'm sorry, one more thing. Just to make another point about the whole "God bless the USA" idea. This is one of several dangerous, destructive doctrines of American Christianity. It is used by many (I'm not picking on YOU in particular) to justify war and ignore poverty. When you take Divine Providence seriously, you are justified in thinking things like, "World poverty is not MY problem. God can fix it whenever he wants. Oh, the unsearchable wisdom of God that he allows so many to suffer!" Or, "It doesn't matter if we kill Muslims / Hindus whatever because their lives are not as valuable, given that they're going to hell anyway." I recall Pat Robertson's lame excuse for why "God" seemed to slaughter so many "heathens" through the swords of the Israelites (literally hundreds of thousands of people are butchered in the OT). He said basically, "Well, God did this because he wanted them to stop spreading their ideas; plus, they were going to hell anyway. By killing them off now, God prevented them from having more offspring and continuing to promote their false ideas." Hitler could not have said it better!

 

[Racheal]

I dont think she meant God bless USA i think she meant us in capital letters.