The problem of Narcissism

[Revelation1316]

So I was in church today and I had an epiphany:

The only person I love unconditionally is myself.

Everyone else, I love conditionally only. (including God)

You see, I was sitting in the pew thinking how my friend who was giving the sermon was preaching for too long (late night watching football so I was tired and didn't want to be there for too long - just long enough to fufill my commitment of being there every sunday so I don't start skipping church and backsliding) and so in between admiring the nice stained glass windows I spotted a nice looking girl in the first row who was there by herself.

She was quite cute, and I'm single, so naturally I'll have to run away from her should our paths ever cross but that's another story.

Anyway, my wandering mind said:

"You know the only bad thing about dating a devout Christian girl? You'd have to marry her before any sex"

Yes, I had a Bible in my hand as I thought this too.

I have qualms about marriage personally, mainly because I don't want to become one flesh/one unit, I don't want to give up my personal autonomy to share it with another.

One doesn't need to be a Christian to see that even secular folk who are married on many occasion have to plan their lives between them, this is aboslutely abhorable to me, I don't want to answer to anyone but myself. (even God)

So anyway, naturally in between asking myself if I am really a Christian (good question, am I?) I thought what would happen if I did go out with this girl, and the relationship got quite advanced and I felt I "loved" her (whatever that means) and then she revealed that she is an ex-prostitute.

Now, this throws a spanner in the works here.

I'm quite convinced that this revelation in this fantasy might show how any love I had for her was ultimately conditional.

This was an interesting point for me, and then I asked myself about my others "loves" in reality and whether they were conditional also.

First I turned to God.

I go to a Calvinist church, but I'm not a Calvinist. (this church is convenient and friendly, so why not?)

In fact I've said if God was the God of Calvinism, I couldn't love him or serve him - and yet again, we find another "love" that is conditional in my life.

I then thought about how I judge my family, I'm sure I love them, but I have this fantasy that I wish I'd wake up one morning and be the last man on earth. (either everyone disappears or everyone dies, either way I'm all alone with the city to myself - and the animals ofcourse)

And so, is my love for them conditional also?

I don't know.

Lastly I decided to look at myself again, comparing myself to this nice looking christian girl who in my fantasy was an ex-prostitute.

I wondered if I would love myself if I were an ex-prostitute, and the answer I think is yes.

In fact, I think I could do nearly anything, irregardless of how awful it is, and still love myself unconditionally.

And so I wondered if I'm narcissitic or not.

You see, I'm not handsome (oh no, rather ugly IMO) and I don't have the body of an Adonis (sadly), and I'm quite stupid (I can't understand Bell's Theorem fully) so why the hell am I so arrogant?

Two possibilities:

1) Bullying as a child.

It may be that with a low self esteem, I've developped somewhat of a Napoleon complex, this seems logical.

2) Unconditional Love linked to survival.

If I like surviving, and can only inhabit this body, I am forced to love myself uncontitionally, aren't I?

After all, if I really hated myself I'd kill myself (If I weren't a theist), so since under no condition can I conceieve of committing suicide whilst remaining a theist, that must mean that unconditonally I love myself.

This also seems logical.

So back to the title of this thread: The problem of Narcissism.

Now, in philosophy it's not uncommon that if one reflects on their own experiences that it could be right to apply this to all mankind. (there's a term for this but I've forgotten it)

Now as I think about life and humanity, I can concieve of certain conditions where others would "fall out of love" with someone over the revelation of something.

Imagine you found out your parents cooked and ate neighbourhood children once a year, would you still love them?

Imagine you were put in Auschwitz, saw everyone die, then escaped, would you still love God?

etc.

It seems that all of us, with every relationship we have now or can concieve of, is based upon conditional love, except the love we have for ourselves, which I think is somehow linked to us being dependant on our bodies for survival. (unless you're suicidal, in which case this doesn't apply to you)

And so, deep down, are we all narcissistic, it's just that it's not "brought out" in everyone because it requires certain "triggers"?

Or am I just horribly rotten and seeking to spread this onto others also so as not to make myself feel bad?

Love to hear your thoughts. (conditionally)

-Rev

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

You sound like one who does not wish to classify themselves into a "traditional marriage" to remain independent...there are relationships especially in france that are non-marriage but partners for life.

 

[The Nihilist]

God that was so long. Thinking we want to read that is horribly narcissistic.
Seriously, though, no, you're fine.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

How did you like my story?

 

[JGL53]

…And so I wondered if I'm narcissistic or not. …

Narcissists are those that believe they are incapable of mistakes, are smarter than and superior to everyone else in the world, who never change their minds, and are generally unhappy a lot because others just don’t seem to appreciate their alleged greatness. I’ve known more than a few narcissists in my time. From reading your post I doubt that you qualify.

…You see, I'm not handsome (oh no, rather ugly IMO) and I don't have the body of an Adonis (sadly), and I'm quite stupid (I can't understand Bell's Theorem fully) so why the hell am I so arrogant?…

Well, there ya go. Anyone who admits he is ugly, ill-shaped, and dull-witted is anything BUT a narcissist. So rest easy.


BTW, here’s a coincidence – I referenced Bell’s Theorem in another thread just minutes ago. What are the odds? I doubt quantum field theory is much discussed in this forum.

I am not a genius or a narcissist, but without going into the actual experiment – which I also don’t understand fully - here are the only two conclusions to be drawn, apparently, and that is all we non-physicists can or need to understand: Either

1. The universe is one “thing”, i.e. monism is the ontology of the universe (look it up in Wikipedia)

Or

2. Some physical process is present in the universe, unknown to modern science, that operates not only faster than the speed of light, but apparently instantaneously.

The simple-minded like me just assume #1 is correct and go back to watching The Gong Show reruns.

 

[Revelation1316]

Well, there ya go. Anyone who admits he is ugly, ill-shaped, and dull-witted is anything BUT a narcissist. So rest easy.

So what am I then?

Do I merely have Narcisistic tendancies, or a superiority complex, or something else?

Something is going on, and it's not Christian.

-Rev

 

[The Nihilist]

So what am I then?

Do I merely have Narcisistic tendancies, or a superiority complex, or something else?

Something is going on, and it's not Christian.

-Rev

No one here is a psychologist.

 

[redmartian89]

To me, it looks like you feel guilty of the human tendency to "look out for #1".

I see nothing wrong with people looking out for their interests. (so long as you don't step over everybody, and you haven't said anything about that) You're simply acting on your interests and desires and no one can fault you for that, again so long as you're not violating other people's well being.

Granted, Christian morality will not agree with this, so I suggest looking again at your values and beliefs, and changing them if need be. Just be honest to yourself.

 

[hairettic]

Rev
i found you entirely entertaining and comical. perhaps that was not your intention though....lol
truely........love is a theory in itself. and you grasp the fact that it is never gonna be all you want or imagine it to be...well that is what i call a reality check. very cool revelations to be having in church......much better than listening to what someone else has been trained to think.
are you a narcissist? so what if you are! join the club. it ain't all bad. there is something wonderful about realizing you LOVE yourself. truely, completely and wholy.....only YOU know what YOU are really like, so all the more so to love YOU.
go with it.

 

[JC1983]

Different kids react to bullying, and mis-treatment differently, and I think you chose the wrong path.

I was bullied as a child (I am still a child, but I'm mature enough to be a lot older), and every since a "marker" in my life (when I became a Christian), my life has improved and I've chosen to improve myself every day.

I don't know why you feel so badly about love. Maybe you aren't made to ever marry someone. For me, unconditional love is the thing I want the most, and I'd willing and happily share all my life with someone I loved.

 

[quatona]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5097731-the-problem-of-narcissism.html

 

[Dahlia1]

Perhaps you will feel differently about marriage when you meet someone you love truly, and feels the same towards you.

 

[GryffinSong]

In my opinion, unless and until you meet a woman with whom you can truly be yourself AND can love being a part of a pair, you're perfectly fine not being interested. There are a lot of unhappy marriages out there. I believe that many of them are a result of unrealistic expectations that their mate will make them whole, or fix all their problems, or somehow make everything perfect. With the right person, those things might happen, but it doesn't happen automatically, or without some work.

As for narcissism, I don't know. I think the unconditional love thing is somewhat normal, depending on how you look at things.

I loved my husband. And eventually I stopped loving him AS A HUSBAND. But my love for him didn't go away. It simply changed into the love one might have for a friend or brother. So, I could choose to stay with him as a friend or brother, or we could divorce. Which we did, and we are still very good friends to this day. In a way, that's unconditional love. I believe that I will love him forever. But not necessarily in the same way. Ditto with my mom, and several of my friends. I can't imagine anything they could do that would kill my love for them. But the nature of that love might change. I hope that makes sense.

One more thought. Hypothetically, if you were in a loving relationship with a woman who betrayed you, it would (in my opinion) be natural and healthy to leave her. For your love to either go away or change. Staying in an abusive relationship, for instance, or one in which your partner is cheating, is unhealthy for you. That doesn't make YOU bad. And it doesn't mean you're not capable of unconditional love. Loving someone who harms you is an exceptional case, and doesn't necessarily discount your ability to love.