Goodness! I must... does that mean that Christianity is wrong?
Is that what you're saying?
Brilliant!
Christianity simply has to be wrong because it is divided [showing that most christians do not have baptism of the spirit to know all truth before they die -John 16:13- , as many of them claim ,provably-falsely-by-simple-logic !]
So Jesus was right, the whole world must fall away into worship of a false god created by Satan [Rev 13:3-7] before he can return and we are already in the throes of that with most of Chriatianity divided ready fro the antichrist to unitre world religion into worship of the false christ image of much modern christianity... [Jesus is in reality the messiah of Israel , annointed king of Israel who will rule in the new earth, not here]
Ok...so this shows he's not benevolent then.
I know that you will one day change your mind about that ... but you simply do not see why God [inevitably]created evil , but unable to DO evil [impossible in the spirit] He created us to experience and reject it...
Again with the lack of benevolence kicking in
It would perhaps make more sense to seek understanding than wasting your time pronouncing judgments of God from a position of not understanding what is going on....
Well, then it's not answered.
If God is outside of TIME - then how can there be a point prior to the existence of the universe in which a cause-effect process can occur?
Ther is no 'prior to' the universe, time was created at the same time as space was created, the beginning of time, there is no time before that , there is no before ... time means NOTHING in the spirit , ther si no cause to the spirit, but
we understand cause
within time , we treat it as understanding , but clearly it is not understanding of the spirit! :-
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
If the universe did not exist at one point - then there must have been a point when it came into existence.
If this existence was caused by God, then God has to act WITHIN time for it to be possible.
No, Einstein showed that space-time is one thing, time is not separate from space ,but dependent ... time is FINITE , it begins and it ends ... the spirit though is SEPARATE from space-time completely.... perhaps think of it as if we are simply virtual characters in God's virtual world... God can create and do miracles, take life and restore it, but He is not part of the game, He is merely the controller, SEPARATE, holy....
Thus, either God does NOT act in the world, or God is not OUTSIDE of time.
As the example of virtual reality computer games shows, this is a false argument ...
No you do [and many others too], but there is no problem God can control a realm which He is not part of as easily as we control characters in a virtual reality computer game... or as easily as we manipulate our dream images when asleep ...
No it doesn't, it opens my minds up to the realisation that your analogy has a fault
See, the programmer has to act within the constraints of time to create and run the programme.
Even if it were to be something like the SIMS, time would run faster for them, and things would be seen on a higher level by the programmer.
But it would be higher, longer - not infinitely so.
.
There does not need to be any time in the spirit, and there is no such thing as infinite time...
Thus God is not omnipotent, as he he unable to perform this simple ability, something that David Bowie perfected, keeping his career and image fresh.
It's not a question of power/potency , it is simply a matter that the reality of God is spirit, not space-time, so there simply is not time in which to
do anything in the spirit, the nature of spirit is VERY different than our reality... but the spirit can create universes of all kinds and indeed does so in knowing them ... its just that in creating time God's awareness is created in the world and manifests for instance as us ... one might say we are the'eyes' of God on knowing this world
Ever heard of a glitch?
Your analogy does use the basis of a computer, and computers do run into fault, have to be repaired, are diseased by viral infections, all manner of problems which show that the programmer does not have complete control over the programme.
It's simply an analogy, a proof that there IS a way to control things without being inside their universe... it makes no difference that OUR computers wear out, that has nothing to do with the point being made...
Oh, I'm sorry, I'll just stop that volcano erupting and killing hundreds of people next time. Whoops, entirely my fault, not out of my power and in the power of an all-powerful being I shouldn't judge; is it?
Again, you either seek understanding or wait for it , but judging God is meaningless, you and I simply do not know enough to judge [and once we do we shall decide not to bother, as with Jesus and the saints ] .. seek to understand why instead of wasting time in meaningless judgments from a position of not understanding.
And we come to the final point you make - God is not omniscient.
I do not see how you came to that conclusion, God sees all there is to see in this world through His creation... that is all-seeing...
[/QUOTE]
I believe that covers the three traits of God we've been struggling with here.
"God cannot see himself", showing that God is not all-knowing, as if he was, he would be able to see it.[/quote]
I see no point in playing with words like that, it doesn't illuminate anything for anyone... God can see all there is to see , God is not see-able until He manifests as a thing in space-time ... so God could see His manifestation [as in Jesus for instance, or Melchizedek] ,so your argument is spurious playng with words without understanding of their meaning... why bother, seek understanding, not word-games empty of meaning... look to understand what is said , not to misunderstand it because you do not want to see ...
