The Pro-Gay Arguers Need To Be Careful

[Singleton]

Well, this is something I also believe in. If you believe something to be sin and you point it out to the person who you believe to be sinned and they don't believe you, then treat them as a sinner.
But God still commands us to walk in love for one another and to keep no record of sins people commit! Jesus is the judge in the end and it will be Him who decides what:

Glory to God. Praise the Lord.

Hello,

I'm having a little trouble understanding this. How would you treat someone as a sinner that would be any different than how you would treat Jesus?
Or are you saying that there should be absolutely no difference?

Also, can you tell me where we are instructed to point out to others what we think is their sin?
Isn't that someone else's job?(i.e. the Holy Spirit)

 

[DMagoh]

Also, can you tell me where we are instructed to point out to others what we think is their sin?
Isn't that someone else's job?(i.e. the Holy Spirit)

Glad you asked...

19 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


5 Better is open rebuke than hidden love. 6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.
Proverbs 27:5-6

 

[Singleton]

Glad you asked...

19 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


5 Better is open rebuke than hidden love. 6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.
Proverbs 27:5-6

Glad you replied ...
However, with no offense intended, I was looking for a reflective response.
Meaning... we could take individual scriptures out of context all day and go round and round on this one.
For example:

"And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto Him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto Him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the Law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest Thou?"
"This they said, tempting Him, that they might have to accuse Him."
"But Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not. So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her”.

How do we determine what is sin or is not a sin for someone else? Should we even be attempting to do this?
Is this our something within our authority or is a person's sin a private matter between an individual and God?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Glad you replied ...
However, with no offense intended, I was looking for a reflective response.
Meaning... we could take individual scriptures out of context all day and go round and round on this one.
For example:

"And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto Him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto Him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the Law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest Thou?"
"This they said, tempting Him, that they might have to accuse Him."
"But Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not. So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her”.

How do we determine what is sin or is not a sin for someone else? Should we even be attempting to do this?
Is this our something within our authority or is a person's sin a private matter between an individual and God?

I think it's more than clear...especially with this issue when you have history, science and philosophy backing homosexuality on the corner.

BTW if we take the "tolerence" stance...then we lose the gospel as well.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:37-38

Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord
Acts 3:19

Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
2 Corinthians 7:10


So....where did you get this idea that repentance was not necessary for salvation?

We can never ransom ourselves.

Salvation is an act of God, not an act of man.

Is this works-based heresy?

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I was making this point along the lines of your above quotation:

The point is, you and I both practice lawlessness every day. Repentance is a good thing, I agree. But it is ONLY by God's grace are we saved in Jesus. No matter how much we repent, we will never be perfect. Grace only.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Well, this is something I also believe in. If you believe something to be sin and you point it out to the person who you believe to be sinned and they don't believe you, then treat them as a sinner.
But God still commands us to walk in love for one another and to keep no record of sins people commit! Jesus is the judge in the end and it will be Him who decides what:

Glory to God. Praise the Lord.

I whole-heartedly agree!

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I think it's more than clear...especially with this issue when you have history, science and philosophy backing homosexuality on the corner.

Do you mean "backing homosexuality INTO a corner?" Because if you do, I think that explains a whole bunch about the way some christians live out their christianity - as thugs who have a hard time accepting the fact that God loves me as much as he does you.

BTW if we take the "tolerence" stance...then we lose the gospel as well.

How would we "lose" the Gospel?

 

[PinkTulip]

The point is, you and I both practice lawlessness every day. Repentance is a good thing, I agree. But it is ONLY by God's grace are we saved in Jesus. No matter how much we repent, we will never be perfect. Grace only.

Of course we will never be perfect (trust me, I am far from it). But I admit my wrongs, and I strive to be better. I don't twist scripture and falsify God's word in order to validate my sins. God is not a democracy. He does not take polls on what is right or wrong.

 

[DMagoh]

Of course we will never be perfect (trust me, I am far from it). But I admit my wrongs, and I strive to be better. I don't twist scripture and falsify God's word in order to validate my sins. God is not a democracy. He does not take polls on what is right or wrong.

Praise the Lord PinkTulip for preaching the Truth.

None of us are perfect, but there is a BIG difference between:

1) stumbling and getting back up, confessing your sin, and trying to live according to God's Word, and

2) deciding to live a life of sin despite what the Bible says

You see, a wise man (Solomon) once said...
for though a righteous man falls seven times, he rises again, but the wicked are brought down by calamity. Proverbs 24:16

The difference is deciding to rise again, instead of trying to justify your sin.

 

[DMagoh]

How do we determine what is sin or is not a sin for someone else? Should we even be attempting to do this?
Is this our something within our authority or is a person's sin a private matter between an individual and God?

There is a BIG difference between correcting and rebuking in order to bring someone to repentance...

19 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20

5 Better is open rebuke than hidden love. 6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.
Proverbs 27:5-6


...and casting a stone, judging them, and wanting them to be punished for their sin.



I am posting because I want these Christians who have strayed from the truth to see the light and repent, and NOT incur the discipline of God.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Hello,

I'm having a little trouble understanding this. How would you treat someone as a sinner that would be any different than how you would treat Jesus?
Or are you saying that there should be absolutely no difference?

Also, can you tell me where we are instructed to point out to others what we think is their sin?
Isn't that someone else's job?(i.e. the Holy Spirit)[/SIZE]

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Pro 25:9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another:

Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
​

 

[Singleton]

It’s easy to cut and paste scripture to support a position.

Matt 7:5 “Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matt 7:1-2 “Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. 2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.

MCH7:1-6 We must judge ourselves, and judge of our own acts, but not make our word a law to everybody. We must not judge rashly, nor pass judgment upon our brother without any ground. We must not make the worst of people. Here is a just reproof to those who quarrel with their brethren for small faults, while they allow themselves in greater ones. Some sins are as motes, while others are as beams; some as a gnat, others as a camel. Not that there is any sin little; if it be a mote, or splinter, it is in the eye; if a gnat, it is in the throat; both are painful and dangerous, and we cannot be easy or well till they are got out. That which charity teaches us to call but a splinter in our brother's eye, true repentance and godly sorrow will teach us to call a beam in our own. It is as strange that a man can be in a sinful, miserable condition, and not be aware of it, as that a man should have a beam in his eye, and not consider it; but the god of this world blinds their minds. Here is a good rule for reprovers; first reform thyself.

James (2:8-13). Be merciful to others because mercy triumphs over judgment

Now, would it be possible to have a thoughtful discussion about on why we go about finding and rebuking sin in others or whether this task is best left to the Holy Spirit?

 

[DMagoh]

It’s easy to cut and paste scripture to support a position.

Matt 7:5 “Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Matt 7:1-2 “Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. 2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.

MCH7:1-6 We must judge ourselves, and judge of our own acts, but not make our word a law to everybody. We must not judge rashly, nor pass judgment upon our brother without any ground. We must not make the worst of people. Here is a just reproof to those who quarrel with their brethren for small faults, while they allow themselves in greater ones. Some sins are as motes, while others are as beams; some as a gnat, others as a camel. Not that there is any sin little; if it be a mote, or splinter, it is in the eye; if a gnat, it is in the throat; both are painful and dangerous, and we cannot be easy or well till they are got out. That which charity teaches us to call but a splinter in our brother's eye, true repentance and godly sorrow will teach us to call a beam in our own. It is as strange that a man can be in a sinful, miserable condition, and not be aware of it, as that a man should have a beam in his eye, and not consider it; but the god of this world blinds their minds. Here is a good rule for reprovers; first reform thyself.

James (2:8-13). Be merciful to others because mercy triumphs over judgment

Now, would it be possible to have a thoughtful discussion about on why we go about finding and rebuking sin in others or whether this task is best left to the Holy Spirit?

Refer to this post:
http://www.christianforums.com/t5505280-judge-not.html

 

[davedjy]

Refer to this post:
http://www.christianforums.com/t5505280-judge-not.html

Off to the gay club, since I have a life!

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Of course we will never be perfect (trust me, I am far from it). But I admit my wrongs, and I strive to be better. I don't twist scripture and falsify God's word in order to validate my sins. God is not a democracy. He does not take polls on what is right or wrong.

I don't either - so what is your point?

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]It’s easy to cut and paste scripture to support a position.
* * *
Now, would it be possible to have a thoughtful discussion about on why we go about finding and rebuking sin in others or whether this task is best left to the Holy Spirit?[/SIZE]

This is what I call playing "Dueling scripture." I posted scripture in answer to a question you post scripture that you think proves my scripture wrong.

Scripture does NOT contradict scripture, all the passages are complementary, NOT contradictory. There is a time for the church to address sin and there is also a time for the church to show love and acceptance.

Did you not even read where both Paul and Jesus condemn entire churches for permitting blatant sin in the church?

You want to have a "thoughtful discussion," the ball is in your court. Please remember Paul's words to Timothy, "All scripture is profitable. . ." Not just the few out-of-context scriptures someone wants to quote, to support their assumptions and presuppositions.

 

[MrPirate]

If YOU truly believe that living a gay lifestyle is not sin and YOU decide to live that way, that's one thing. When you try to sway others, who are doing their best to battle temptation, and convince them to adopt a gay lifestyle, then you have crossed a line. Jesus said...

Gay lifestyle

Is this anything like the black lifestyle that racists talk about?

I would advise anyone who wants to make a pro-gay argument to think twice before condemning themselves in this manner.

If you have somehow convinced yourself that engaging in homosexual sex is not a sin, (For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 ) please dont increase your weeping on the Day of Judgement by pulling others down with you.

What about those who have convinced themselves that prejudice directed against a minority isn’t a sin?

 

[MrPirate]

Just out of curiosity, how do YOU decide which parts of the Bible are true, and which parts are just allegory, myth, or fables? Did Jesus really die on the cross and rise from the grave?

Just out of curiosity…how do YOU decide which parts of the bible to ignore and which parts to inflict upon others? Shaving. Wearing gold wedding rings. Owning slaves. Killing disobedient children. wearing clothing made of mixed fabrics,. Raping women after a war. Blood sacrifice. All biblically supported…do you support/engage in these activities?

 

[Candide]

Just out of curiosity, how do YOU decide which parts of the Bible are true, and which parts are just allegory, myth, or fables? Did Jesus really die on the cross and rise from the grave?

Last I hear, Jesus gave us the right to interpret scripture as we see fit "whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven". At least that's my interpretation of that verse.

And anyway, if you don't take some of the Bible as allegory and whatnot (or at least don't allow for historical context), it sort of contradicts itself a lot.