The pristine question

[Ken Wojo]

If evolution is truly a mindless bio-chemical process, I'm confused on how it would produce an organism with a motivation to stay alive. How does a chemical reaction produce a molecule that prefers one future outcome over another (life or death). How do you motivate a mindless molecule to actively pursue life. Why would it care. How could it care

I believe this question suggests a proof of a higher truth that requires God's existence​

 

[Sabertooth]

That is called self-awareness. It is a problem in artificial intelligence, too.

 

[Ken Wojo]

Self awareness doesn't apply until a reasoning brain is involved. Your post does not answer the question in any sense. "How does a chemical reaction produce a molecule that prefers one future outcome over another" I'm talking about simple life forms that started the era of life, like bacteria and single cell organisms performing mitosis. I am questioning the very idea of 'survival of the fittest'. "How do you motivate a mindless molecule to actively pursue life. Why would it care. How could it care"

 

[Sabertooth]

Your post does not answer the question in any sense. "How does a chemical reaction produce a molecule that prefers one future outcome over another"

I'm not seeking to defend that position; I was agreeing with you.

Your hypothetical molecule would have to have self-determination (a facet of self-awareness) which it does not.

 

[Brightmoon]

Well the probability of that happening is actually 1 because it DID happen about 4 billion years ago. How it happened is being investigated by abiogenesis (not evolution) researchers . While they’ve got some of those questions answered, scientists still don’t have a complete picture. I’m not sure why this is an issue with people who don’t study or understand the research enough to even get the name of the field correct

 

[Job 33:6]

If evolution is truly a mindless bio-chemical process, I'm confused on how it would produce an organism with a motivation to stay alive. How does a chemical reaction produce a molecule that prefers one future outcome over another (life or death). How do you motivate a mindless molecule to actively pursue life. Why would it care. How could it care

I believe this question suggests a proof of a higher truth that requires God's existence​

A species that "wants to live" really is the only species that could exist (long term).

Species that didn't want to live and those that failed to live, of course would cease to exist (as observed through the 99% of extinct life in the fossil record).

Evolution produces many variants of species. Both successful and non-successful. The non-successful go extinct, leaving the successful to live on. This gives the impression that evolution produces only successful species because they're the only ones still alive. But in reality, variants of all shapes and sizes are being produced, in what appears to be a non predictable or random way.

So evolution doesn't explicitly produce life that "wants to stay alive", rather, evolution produces countless variants, and life that acts in ways which promotes it's existance is naturally successful.

 

[Ken Wojo]

You missed the question. How does a mindless molecule form a preference of one future outcome over another. Why would it care, more importantly, how could it care

 

[Job 33:6]

You missed the question. How does a mindless molecule form a preference of one future outcome over another. Why would it care, more importantly, how could it care

In evolution, mutations form countless variants of morphological features (such as teeth or shells). They don't choose one outcome over another. They simply are what they are.

Things like climate change and environmental pressures shape them in ways that simply makes them "appear" to be preferentially mutated.

A species doesn't just wake up in the morning and think "oh I think I will evolve teeth today". Rather teeth and countless variants of other morphological changes are made, seemingly at random. Then teeth just so happen to help the species live longer, and so teeth remain in the population.

The biological makeup of the species never made a mindful decision. They never had a preference to make teeth in any pre meditated way. Nor do molecules have feelings or care for whether or not they have teeth in any sort of intellectual way.

Rather the biological makeup of a species simply is what it is.

The gazelle never chose to evolve to run fast. Rather evolving to run fast is the only way gazelles could even exist. Those that couldn't run fast, of course were dead upon arrival. The gazelle species didn't pre meditate a choice to evolve to run fast, rather they became fast as a product of their surroundings.

 

[Job 33:6]

To offer a counter thought, how could a species ever "choose death"? It couldn't choose death, at least not collectively, else it would not exist and we wouldn't be having this conversation to begin with.

In evolution, an endless number of variants come into existance. But only those that "choose life" can exist for an extended period of time. And thus it looks as if all living species "choose life". But in reality, what we are seeing are the successful variations. The variations that didn't "choose life" are long gone.

 

[Job 33:6]

And so to go back to the original post:

"If evolution is truly a mindless bio-chemical process, I'm confused on how it would produce an organism with a motivation to stay alive. "

Really this question could be shortened. If evolution is essentially random/mindless/without direction, then how could it make species that are motivated to live? After all, if something is without direction, it shouldn't be selective of life.

The answer is that evolution produces organisms that are motivated to do countless different things, including variants that have a motivation to die. But we only see the successful end result. So the question is improper.

The molecules aren't intellectually motivated. A bug doesn't ponder life and death. Rather, bugs act in a way which results in survival (they respond to their environment just as we respond to touching fire), as this is the only way they could exist.

 

[Brightmoon]

You missed the question. How does a mindless molecule form a preference of one future outcome over another. Why would it care, more importantly, how could it care

. I’d suggest that you take chemistry 101 to learn how molecules and atoms bond together. Even now we can generate self replicating RNAs that will mindlessly reproduce themselves in a amino acid soup . I’m not sure but it probably had more to do with being a more efficient replicator than it’s neighbor RNAs and that would evolved randomly . Yes I’m using the E word , evolution happened in molecular replicants before life officially starts .

Then there are the added little details like cell-like bilipid membranes will self assemble. Amino acids will form even in the vacuum of space and in black smokers in the oceans. Metals and clays can act like catalysts for chemical processes. And the equally tiny fact that viruses are basically chemicals

 

[Queller]

If evolution is truly a mindless bio-chemical process, I'm confused on how it would produce an organism with a motivation to stay alive. How does a chemical reaction produce a molecule that prefers one future outcome over another (life or death). How do you motivate a mindless molecule to actively pursue life. Why would it care. How could it care

I believe this question suggests a proof of a higher truth that requires God's existence​

And yet mindless molecules actively pursue life every day.

Not to mention that many self-aware organisms die anyway without reproducing.