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The presidential race

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PoliticalGuru

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It is good to hear that he is pro-life now.

In the end, I think it is going to come down to either Fred Thomson or Giuliani. No one else really stands a chance, especially the democratic side. The democrats have no one to offer, so Giuliani or Thomson will win by default.

-Davide

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. I think in some polls at least in New York, Hillary's deadlocked with guiliani, so she while I would like to dimiss her, I would say she has a decent shot.
 
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Sandlapper277

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Referendums sound good at first, but it suffers from the fact that voters are unable to modify the proposal if it isn't well balanced and well written. They also leave mandates that are hard to get rid of when situations change.
Not to mention the sheer expense of carrying one out on a national scale.
 
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MrPolo

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Referendums sound good at first, but it suffers from the fact that voters are unable to modify the proposal if it isn't well balanced and well written. They also leave mandates that are hard to get rid of when situations change.

Bear in mind the alternative is to let the politicians "represent" us in these decisions.
 
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Maynard Keenan

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It is good to hear that he is pro-life now.

In the end, I think it is going to come down to either Fred Thomson or Giuliani. No one else really stands a chance, especially the democratic side. The democrats have no one to offer, so Giuliani or Thomson will win by default.

-Davide

Lol, they have no one to offer YOU. Big difference there. Mark my words, a Democrat will win the presidency. They can offer people a new direction, while Republicans can offer the same rhetoric, the same promises, and the same failures as Bush. Republicans are going to run from Bush but at every step they've supported him. Bush is what the Republican party is and there is no changing that. People don't want more Bush.
 
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BillH

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I suggest anyone considering voting for Ron Paul make sure they first understand the nature of libertarianism and it's implications. Paul once ran for President on the Libertarian Party ticket and still considers himself a "small l" libertarian. This is a movement that opposes things like publicly funded construction of roads, the US postal service, anti-trust laws, labor protection laws (All of them), environmental protection laws (all of them), the income tax (Which they equate to slavery), a legal minimum age of consent for sexual acts, government recognition of marriages, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and a whole laundry list of important laws and programs, while favoring legalized prostitution. Ultimately they want a government so minimal that the end result would be either anarchy or a small group of large corporations and associations that essentially treat the rest of us as slaves.

I'm not saying Congressman Paul is in line with the libertarian position on all of these items (He probably has to be more moderate than that to have been elected to congress), but people should be aware that he has freely aligned himself with a party devoted to many of them in the past and still uses the term "libertarian" to describe himself. I could never and would never vote for a libertarian under any circumstances, personally.

I do agree with Bill on being against the war and being pro-life, and it's nice that the Congressman agrees with us on those two things also, but overall the Congressman becoming President would be a huge disaster for this nation, in my opinion.

Trust me, I know libertarians that would make Ron Paul look like a communist. I'm not really a libertarian myself, but I'm not terribly worried about those issues where we diverge largely because he's running for President of the federal government. Even if he became dictator of the federal government and could write libertarian-inclined federal laws by fiat (and in the real world, he'll have to deal with Congress) it would just devolve a lot of federal responsibilities to the states, which I don't think would be a terrible thing in a lot of cases. As it is, I don't think that there are much in the way of federal laws regarding prostitution and age of consent laws and the like.

And even where we disagree and I think he could make a real difference (Federal Reserve appointments come to mind) I don't think that the damange he could cause could conceivably be any worse than the damage that is and will be caused by the path we're current on with regards to the war and abortion. And...

Maynard Keenan said:
Lol, they have no one to offer YOU. Big difference there. Mark my words, a Democrat will win the presidency. They can offer people a new direction, while Republicans can offer the same rhetoric, the same promises, and the same failures as Bush. Republicans are going to run from Bush but at every step they've supported him. Bush is what the Republican party is and there is no changing that. People don't want more Bush.

You're right. I frankly find it highly unlikely that the Democrats will lose this election. They just barely lost the last two presidential elections when Bush was relatively popular by running two of the least charismatic men in America. They have a much better field this time around, and Bush is now one of the least popular presidents since they've been able to take accurate surveys. Whoever the Republicans nominate is unlikely to actually govern, so I might as well support someone who'll shake up the party a bit in a direction that I like.
 
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PoliticalGuru

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Lol, they have no one to offer YOU. Big difference there. Mark my words, a Democrat will win the presidency. They can offer people a new direction, while Republicans can offer the same rhetoric, the same promises, and the same failures as Bush. Republicans are going to run from Bush but at every step they've supported him. Bush is what the Republican party is and there is no changing that. People don't want more Bush.

rhetoric from the democrats in itself.
 
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