The pre-tribulation lie!

daughterofzion said:

How is this pre-trib?



The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age


3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The Great Tribulation


15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
The Coming of the Son of Man


29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:3-29

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It isnt pretrib, thats why you and I dont see it.

God bless, sister.

L.

Lynn73 said:

I agree with this. There's absolutley no reason for the bride of Christ which hasn't rejected Him to be put through the tribulation.

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I'm sorry, Lynn, but I humbly disagree with you.
I dont believe you can honestly say that there is no reason to put His bride through the tribulation, as you dont know the mind of God. Furthermore, His bride continues to reject Him as we continue to walk in our sinful nature. Disobeying Him through sin is the same as rejecting Him. Its not a full rejection of Him, but its still rejection nonetheless.

I believe that the reason we will go through the tribulation is for the same reason many before us have had to go through it: for the glory of God. God's glory will become much more apparent in our sufferings than in some mysterious rapture.

Lynn73 said:

The tribulation is for punishment of the wicked on earth, not to abuse the church, the bride of Christ.

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The tribulation is when God lets the devil do his thing on earth. Who do you think that the devil wants to attack? Us, christians or the unbelieving? The devil does not need to attack the unbelieving as they are already within his grasp. The christians, however, are what the devil is after. He wants to claim all of us as his own and steal them away from God. This is what the battle has been about from the beginning. The devil rebelling against God, trying to steal away God's precious children.

Lynn73 said:

Re 3:10 - Show Context Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the houroftemptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

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I suggest that you research the greek (or is it latin) translation of "kept from". For God to keep us from the hour of temptation does not mean for us to be raptured away. God can keep us, protect us just fine if we are here on earth. Look at ancient Egypt when the plagues were falling upon the land. he kept His people protected while they were in the midst of the plagues. He did the same for Noah and his family. As well as for Joseph.
That is what the history of the OT is for. To look back and learn what God's nature towards His children has been, and compare that to the last days.


There are other clues as well. In Revelation during the letters to the churches each one ends with "let he who has an ear hear what the Spirt saith unto the churches" or something like that. Then during the rest of Revelation you hear nothing about the church at all but we do get the phrase "he who hath and ear let him hear." The church isn't mentioned because the church is gone. There will be tribulation believers of course but they aren't the church but are the "gleanings" of the harvest.[/quote]

Did you know that Revelation is not chronological?

The Greek word in the passage is "ek" which means out of. If it mean keep us through the hour of temptation, I've been told there's a different word for that. But thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I'm going to look for the blessed hope, not the tribulation.

Lynn73 said:

The Greek word in the passage is "ek" which means out of. If it mean keep us through the hour of temptation, I've been told there's a different word for that. But thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I'm going to look for the blessed hope, not the tribulation.

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something i found:

It is true the Greek word "ek" means "out of." However, as we will see later, they misinterpret the word "keep." They also misunderstand this little Greek preposition "ek." "Ek" normally requires a previous presence within the object, in this case, the tribulation. In the multitude of occurrances of "ek" in the Bible, in virtually all of them "ek" implies a previous connection to the object, usually within it. Rather than denoting a stationary position, "ek" implies a movement or emerging from within the object. The meaning of "ek" would more accurately be translated "out from among," or "out of the midst of." This is how it is defined in the Greek lexicons. In Rev. 3:10, the object is the tribulation. In order to come "out from among" the tribulation you must first be IN the tribulation. This usage can be demonstrated from the following verse.

Rev. 7:14
14 ...These are they which came OUT OF great tribulation,...

The words "out of" are also translated from the Greek word "ek." In this case, it is clear these saints were in the tribulation first, and emerged from it. There are three Greek prepositions which could be translated "from" in English, with different meanings. The Greek words "para" and "apo" mean motion away from, or a fixed position outside the object. Had either of these been used in Rev. 3:10, the implication would be that believers would be kept out of, and remain outside, the tribulation. However, "ek" in contrast, means, motion from the interior of the object. That is, emerging from within the tribulation. Based on the meaning of "ek" alone, the implication strongly favors a post-trib view of the saints emerging from within the tribulation.

http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/rev310.html

Hope this clears up my point a bit.

God bless.

L.

I agree with previous posts which state their is no way to "win" this argument. However, one who says there will not be a pre-tribulation rapture is "just as saved" as some one who says there is not. The important thing is not whether there is a rapture, but that whenever Jesus does come for us, we must be believers, living a pure and blameless life (not to say without sin because we are all sinners, but we can all be found blameless through Jesus' righteousness...).

Regardless, one thing is clear - no matter what, we must remain Christian and must not compromise, and must endure to the end, whatever that end may be.

Personally, I see in the Scriptures that, as others have pointed out, the righteous are always spared from God's wrath prior to judgement; why not then the righteous in the end times also? For those who do not believe in a post-trib rapture, will you be disappointed if there is one?