Nothing confrontational. I just wanted to take a poll here. And any discussion / debate on why we believe what we believe can be conducted in Messianic Way. This is for the general information of all.
The PRE-incarnate Yeshua
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I do not, never have agreed with, and have argued vociferously (under my previous CF identity) against the Messianic Way, and similar goups there, but only for the reason that it is shown by CF to be an unorthodox belief. I therefore refuse to post on it, or the other like fora there, for this reason. I think it is an afront to G_d to call the Messianic belief, for whatever reason, unorthodox. Were it not for what we hold to be true there would be no CF at all!
Interestingly, it says at the head of this forum that it is intended for "Christians and Jews to discuss Messianic Judaism beliefs and issues" - yet that is obviously an error, because Jews do not have the freedom to discuss these issues on this forum according to the rules!
About as confused as we are with what our Government is saying / doing!
Interestingly, it says at the head of this forum that it is intended for "Christians and Jews to discuss Messianic Judaism beliefs and issues" - yet that is obviously an error, because Jews do not have the freedom to discuss these issues on this forum according to the rules!
About as confused as we are with what our Government is saying / doing!
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BereanTodd
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Yeshua is and was God from before time. By Him and through Him all things were made; moreover, all of the OT theophonies were actually Christophonies, pre-incarnate appearances of Yeshua.
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John 1:1-14 supports that he was from before time and that in and through him everything that was created was created - nothing was created but through him. That is a sound Biblical understanding that may raise a few problems in MW?
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Think of the Messianic Way as for subjects that orthodox christianity does not want on its spiritual food tray. Messianic Judaism is and has a great opportunity to help both camps.. hence the two camps.. We are the bridge.. Not a hinderence or a default.. not something to think as a negative, .. rather something to call a blessings.. for we are in a position that no other group on the forum has.. Lord works in mysterious ways.. it is a wonder to behold.
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God the Father
God the Word (later, God the Son)
God the Holy Spirit
Hebrews 1:1-21 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he (God) hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he (God) made the worlds;
Like the Trump family fortune. Donald Sr. is the Trump through whom it was made.
The Word (the Son) is the one through whom God made all that was made.
Isaiah 44:24
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Genesis 1:1
1 In the beginning God (the Word) created the heaven and the earth.
God the Word (later, God the Son)
God the Holy Spirit
Hebrews 1:1-21 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he (God) hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he (God) made the worlds;
Like the Trump family fortune. Donald Sr. is the Trump through whom it was made.
The Word (the Son) is the one through whom God made all that was made.
Isaiah 44:24
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Genesis 1:1
1 In the beginning God (the Word) created the heaven and the earth.
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marcusampe
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though in the New Testament we clearly can read "this is my son" and we learn that Jesus is lower than his Father at whom's right hand he sits.
Yeshua is the son of God but he is not God, because there is only One God and He has given His Word in which we can read that Jesus is the Son of God.
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marcusampe
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My Son: Matthew 3:17: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mt 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show justice to the Gentiles.
Mt 17:5 While he was yet speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mr 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Lu 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Not the same: John 14:28: I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
No godmen: Hebrews 2:9; 14,17: But, we do behold Jesushaving been made less than angelsnow crowned with glory and honor because of suffering the death, so that by Gods unmerited favor Jesus tasted death for everyone.
... Therefore, since the little boys shared blood and flesh, Jesus also partook of the very same things ... As a consequence of this, Jesus was obligated to be made exactly like his blood and flesh brothers. In this way Jesus became a merciful and faithful High Priest in matters pertaining to The God, resulting in providing a sacrificial atonement for the sins of the people.
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Oh deeeeaaaarrrrr! Haven't you worked this out yet? Yeshua came to earth as one of us (Philippians), therefore his Father was greater than him whilst he walked this earth. Goodness me, my kids know that! Similar response to what you say about Hebrews - they could not see everything subject to him because he was as one of us, having laid down his G_dly attributes!
After his death and resurrection he took back again his G_dly attributes - no problem.
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Hadassah
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I was referring to the thought that Y'shua is lesser than G-d and/or a created being, or otherwise "Seperate" from G-d Himself.
Study of early church history not only seals the deal on the old cults and proven heresies, but also helps solidify our understanding of Scripture and doctrine.
Study of early church history not only seals the deal on the old cults and proven heresies, but also helps solidify our understanding of Scripture and doctrine.
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marcusampe
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Php 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, (who though existing in a god’s form did not consider retaining things equal to divinity–
Mt 12:18 Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; My beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, And he shall declare judgment to the Gentiles.
Jesus also goes to his Father > John 14:12 and itis given to the son > John 10:29 and the son shall give to the father > 1Co 15:24 Then, finally, the End, whenever he delivers up the Realm to The God and Father–whenever he has rendered ineffectual all government and all authority and power.
Heb 1:3 The Son is the very reflection of His glory and the very imprint of His substance. The Son upholds the Universe by his powerful declaration. After the Son made a cleansing of the sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in exalted places.
Heb 2:9 But, we do behold Jesus–having been made less than angels–now crowned with glory and honor because of suffering the death, so that by God’s unmerited favor Jesus tasted death for everyone.
Mt 12:18 Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; My beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, And he shall declare judgment to the Gentiles.
Jesus also goes to his Father > John 14:12 and itis given to the son > John 10:29 and the son shall give to the father > 1Co 15:24 Then, finally, the End, whenever he delivers up the Realm to The God and Father–whenever he has rendered ineffectual all government and all authority and power.
Heb 1:3 The Son is the very reflection of His glory and the very imprint of His substance. The Son upholds the Universe by his powerful declaration. After the Son made a cleansing of the sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in exalted places.
Heb 2:9 But, we do behold Jesus–having been made less than angels–now crowned with glory and honor because of suffering the death, so that by God’s unmerited favor Jesus tasted death for everyone.
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