Carl Emerson
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This is a cessationist belief and as such goes against the rules of this sub. Contribute in a meaningful way according to our rules please.
That is 100% cessationism. God provides healing for all people, at all times. Not just when they die
Considering our Salvation is also in the Atonement, would your position be the same with Salvation on demand or on our time table?
A scripture that doesn't seem to get a lot of attention in this regard is:
When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
“He took on our infirmities
and carried our diseases.” Matthew 8:16-17 (BSB)
Jesus healing people was a fulfillment of Isaiah 53:4. The same scripture that Peter quotes in 1 Peter 2:21-25 regarding salvation. The implication is quite clear, that the cross not only paid for our sins, but it also provides the means by which we can receive actual, tangible healing. Thus when those in Acts declared, "In Jesus name..." people were actually healed by the same sacrifice that gives us eternal life.
So as you correctly comment, if we are going to believe that the cross provides salvation at this present moment, we should also believe that the cross provides healing for our bodies... because it does!
The way that information was presented, it absolutely was presented as a cessationist argument. I grew up in that crowd, I can spot a cessationist talking point when I read or hear one. The poster in question didn't even hint at the possibility of present day healing, only that people would be fully healed on the day of redemption.This perspective does not have to preclude healing today...
But the scripture in question, Matthew 8:16-17, has absolutely nothing to do with a future day of complete healing. That's a misapplication of scripture. It is in reference to actual, present day healing. Things that cessationists denyYes it does provide healing as well as salvation, healing is part of salvation, but is not fully realised until after death.
The way that information was presented, it absolutely was presented as a cessationist argument. I grew up in that crowd, I can spot a cessationist talking point when I read or hear one. The poster in question didn't even hint at the possibility of present day healing, only that people would be fully healed on the day of redemption.
When my mother died of cancer, everyone was told that God doesn't heal people as He once did, but now that she had passed she had her new body. Cessationism sounds really nice, wonderful, and scriptural. But it's really just unbelief wrapped in a nice bow.
But the scripture in question, Matthew 8:16-17, has absolutely nothing to do with a future day of complete healing. That's a misapplication of scripture. It is in reference to actual, present day healing. Things that cessationists deny
They may but I don't.
My brother, I am not accusing you of being a cessationist. I'm really not even accusing that poster of being one. I am merely saying that the content of what they shared is something a cessationist would say. I can't think of more than a couple of Charismatics that I've ever known who referred to healing as happening at the day of redemption. Maybe it's just a given, not something that occupies our time or thought process. Healing in circles I've interacted with has always been referred to in the present day. All I was saying is they can probably word their argument a bit better if they don't want to appear as such. Even their reply to my initial comment was for me to just go back and read their last response. The last response being that healing is realized on the day of redemption. Why wait until I die to be healed? Jesus didn't tell people that. The Apostles didn't. The very Apostle that wrote the scriptures that person posted saw unusual miracles and healings take place through his own hands.Friend I am very involved in praying for healing and seeing God do amazing work but agree with the poster on that point without being a cessationist.
My brother, I am not accusing you of being a cessationist. I'm really not even accusing that poster of being one. I am merely saying that the content of what they shared is something a cessationist would say. I can't think of more than a couple of Charismatics that I've ever known who referred to healing as happening at the day of redemption. Maybe it's just a given, not something that occupies our time or thought process. Healing in circles I've interacted with has always been referred to in the present day. All I was saying is they can probably word their argument a bit better if they don't want to appear as such. Even their reply to my initial comment was for me to just go back and read their last response. The last response being that healing is realized on the day of redemption. Why wait until I die to be healed? Jesus didn't tell people that. The Apostles didn't. The very Apostle that wrote the scriptures that person posted saw unusual miracles and healings take place through his own hands.
So again, no offense intended, I wasn't calling you or them a cessationist, only that the argument that they presented is very much so.
These signs WILL FOLLOW those who believe.. we would all be wise to remember thatUnderstand... why not ask the poster if he is or not ???
The more I see Him move the more I credit His activities as being the ultimate Grace rather than any Gift I may have. For me He is the focus - in early Acts they prayed "Extend YOUR hand to heal"
I prefer not to claim a gift - that is for others to decide.
These signs WILL FOLLOW those who believe.. we would all be wise to remember that
I've seen in person and in testimonies of families and groups like this, who remain healthy, not just nor only being mature enough in the Word and in their Faith, but their lives were filled with good habits, good diets, clean water (or clean enough), and not things that brought harm nor poison to their area, body , home, work, or living space ...rather, they are mature enough in the Word and in their Faith that they simply remain healthy
I believe today, we are in a time of faith and hope. This is the means we are to please God. Without faith, it is impossible to please Him. So, things such as sickness may be present to test that faith. We need to hold fast to the truth and confession even in the face of outward, contradictory evidence. But that test is between the individual and God. Our faith stance should be that He has healed us. At the end of the "faith chapter" in Heb 11, we see OT believers who believed even tho they never received, even to their deaths. They believed, which in their case was the only evidence of the unseen thing. Faith was the only substance of the thing they hoped for. And despite never having received in the days of their lives, they pleased God. I believe this should be our faith stance regarding healing and, in many cases, prayer. We are to believe that we have received when we pray.
You are correct that in heaven, we will have perfected bodies that have no need of healing. As for today, we are to pray His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. We are to pray for bodies that are healthy and have no need of healing.
Peace.
That is 100% cessationism. God provides healing for all people, at all times. Not just when they die
Considering our Salvation is also in the Atonement, would your position be the same with Salvation on demand or on our time table?
When my mother died of cancer, everyone was told that God doesn't heal people as He once did, but now that she had passed she had her new body. Cessationism sounds really nice, wonderful, and scriptural. But it's really just unbelief wrapped in a nice bow.
The ultimate and complete healing you are referring to, is given to us when our corrupted bodies are finally redeemed
I absolutely disagree with that.Yes... signs are following because He is getting the Glory - the healing is God centred rather than man centred or gift centred.
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