The Pope's environmental encyclical has been released, discuss here.

Root of Jesse · Jun 23, 2015

smaneck said:
No, the intention of the Affordable Care Act was that people who fall through the cracks this way would become eligible for Medicaid. Then the courts said that states could opt out. So this is the fault of our governor and state legislature.

The road to chaos is paved with good intentions. But you had to pass the law to know what was in it. BTW, lots of groups could opt out. That's the fault of the Obama administration, to give them that out.

.

Obviously my Section 8 tenants are getting government assistance, but why should the government subsidize Walmart?

For the same reason it subsidizes anything?

Better work and better pay in Mississippi means $8 an hour instead of $7.25. Whoopee!

And less than a living wage is less than fair.

Minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. I know many people who work two or three jobs at twice that in order to get by on a decent standard.

Wrong. In the parable of the workers in the vineyard the worker were all paid a dinar, which back then was a living wage. That's why the landowner paid those who worked only an hour the same, because if they didn't get a dinar they wouldn't eat that day.

But the landowner determined that it was fair to pay those who worked only an hour the same. Not the government.

Root of Jesse · Jun 23, 2015

Read for content, don't read into anything what isn't there. I never said that.

Root of Jesse · Jun 23, 2015

smaneck said:
So you agree with legalizing abortion?

I never said that. Read what's written, not what you superimpose.

Root of Jesse · Jun 23, 2015

ebia said:
er, no.

er, yeah. especially social encyclicals. They exhort people to come back to God and live according to his ways.

The encyclical has strong words about people who deny it.

Even climate scientists who say the data is cooked?

I am reading it.

Really answered my question...

because you are

I most certainly am not. I agree that we, as individual Christians, need to do whatever we can to conserve our planet. That's the entire theme of the encyclical.
I disagree, and am permitted to, with the Pope on certain points. That's not the entire encyclical. BTW, remember when the entire Canadian Bishops Conference dissented from Humanae Vitae?

See Pius XII on the authority of encyclicals.

[/QUOTE]See above.

Root of Jesse · Jun 23, 2015

setmefree said:
Im 56 and in 2012 lost my job of 34 yrs due to the company I worked for going bankrupt. I was making a reasonable amount of money. Now I have not had full-time work since. Just a series of seasonable position that pay a bit above minimum wage. I assure you I am not an exception. Luckily I am married to a woman who makes about $12.00 per hour. I took our savings and paid off our very modest home.

I'm sorry for your plight. At least you had savings to pay for your home.

She has our insurance but I know a lot about the Affordable Care Act. I have lived in Canada, England and the US. When in England I work a summer in France and 4 months in Israel. In both cases i had to have medical treatment. Of all the countries I have mentioned the US is the only one of them that does not have Universal Health Care. I will take any one of those systems with their faults any day over what is offered in this country. Essentially all the propaganda you hear about other healthcare system actually comes down to the following. There are longer wait times for NON essential procedures and you have to pay higher taxes in one form or another. Also its very likely you will have to share a hospital room with another couple people when infection isn't an issue. The life expectancy and all other health measures are as good or better then the US. They also manage to do it at a drastically lower % of GDP

The problem is, who gets to determine what's essential and non-essential, and on what basis? I have a niece in Canada who needed surgery on her brain to prevent her having seizures, she waited 5 years for the surgery. As I said, who is making the decisions for your health and well-being? The government? No thanks.

So lets say you want/ need a artificial hip. In the US if you are lucky enough to have good insurance you get it very quickly.

It's luck that you have private health insurance???

In the other countries you may have to wait a long time. My view is that artificial hip is a miracle in itself. In this country some think its a procedure they should get right this second. They don't feel that its a truly amazing thing that they are grateful for. No. They have adopted an attitude of entitlement and waiting for this miracle like in other countries is unacceptable. This attitude in my opinion is so against the teaching of Christianity and the Catholic Church I can't believe there are so many who think this way regarding healthcare and everything else in their very privileged lives.

While I agree that hip replacement may not be essential and 'need it now', I want to ask-why is it a bad thing that people who can pay for their own health insurance do so, while people who cannot have publicly sponsored health care?

The wealthy of the world are growing more disdainful of the people who have nothing or very little. They are not just satisfied with having their wealth. Their mission now appears to be to take more and ore away from those who have so little. Its called greed and entitlement to have more than others. They get angry at the poor and claim they are all dishonest and trying to cheat the system. They defend their position under the guise of patriotism and superiority moral authority. The Pope is speaking to these people of wealth and entitlement with this encyclical and in other ways. Predictably these people now think that they can ignore the leader of their church.

It's called working for your way while on earth. While I agree that lots of people are greedy (hence all the 'buy your own island' type shows on TV) they have their reward.
Many who receive assistance from the government are lazy and dishonest. Those we do get angry at. Those who defraud the system, including the corporate entities that defraud the government. I do not begrudge giving to someone who is truly in need, that's what Christians do. No one claims they're all dishonest, but there's enough who are that kinda upset the whole apple cart.
You presume too much. Nobody I've read is suggesting ignoring his encyclical.

fat wee robin · Jun 23, 2015

ebia said:
If each person in the west consumes many, many times the natural resources of, say, each person in Bangladesh, isn't "reduce the global population" as much a simplistic answer as any other?

The US of A is the biggest bar none polluter in the world .Even the UK is less than half of this spoiled country ,and people like myself who do not even own a car do not need to be preached to on this subject .Preach the lessons needed to those who need them, and better still the preach the Word ,not politics, as Christ said .

fat wee robin · Jun 23, 2015

Fantine said:
Using their creativity, scientists have been developing ways to save fossil fuel and decrease global warming for years. And the fuel industry has been fighting back--lowering prices to get these pesky scientists to stop.

What Pope Francis adds is the idea that it's not enough. We need to live simpler lives. That's adding a moral component. Not only alternative energy but also alternative values. Common sense has entrepreneurs scrambling to develop new products. The Pope is prophetic.

I would agree with this,but he should be more specific ,and not make people who are poor and have little resources, feel guilty .If the USA changed it would change the world ,but I doubt that she will . Most of our bad habits have come from there and most of the pressure to destroy better ways of life have come from there ,like undermining good quality sustainable crops ,higher quality food in Europe in order with Mosanto ,Mc Donalds ,starbucks ,coca cola and on and on .I never buy any of them ,as I buy locally
from small producers ,but the pressure is always there ,a cultural undermining of our best customs and more caring society .

fat wee robin · Jun 23, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
Baloney. I sacrifice a lot. I know lots of people that do, too. If everyone would do their part of their own, it would make a huge difference, much more than what Kyoto suggested, which would, at best, alter the global temp .5 C.
If everyone did it, it would make a huge difference. Why do we need radical changes immediately? Radical changes usually overcompensate and create other problems. As we can see when government does it.
If humanity would do it on their own, it would not.
I disagree that if every Catholic does it, it's still not enough. Better if every Christian.
A problem of inequality of resource usage? Sure!
Too late for what? I don't think God will let humans destroy His creation.
Again, you take a very narrow view of what I wrote. THINK. SUBSIDIARITY.
If there is a global problem, at all, which many dispute.

Your right .God will judge us on our individual behaviours ,not what we project onto others .The pope should be addressing individual catholics to clean up their act ,but acting like this on the world stage is suspiciously close to Caesars work ,and not Gods .

Root of Jesse · Jun 23, 2015

fat wee robin said:
Your right .God will judge us on our individual behaviours ,not what we project onto others .The pope should be addressing individual catholics to clean up their act ,but acting like this on the world stage is suspiciously close to Caesars work ,and not Gods .

The Pope is addressing both individual Catholics and the world. Encyclicals are meant to be personal to the audience the Pope aims at. Part of this is to individuals, part is to governments and so on.
By the way, for those who read my comments and think I want no government involvement in stewardship of the Earth, what I want is for the principal of subsidarity to be used. Individuals cannot protect drinking water from contamination, or enforce safety regulations on nuclear plants.

classicalhero · Jun 23, 2015

Tallguy88 said:
Not an invasive ultrasound.

Then you must be against abortion, since they use invasive ultrasound to make sure everything is removed.

But i wonder how many people are taking the Pope's advice about this?

188. There are certain environmental issues where it is not easy to achieve a broad consensus. Here I would state once more that the Church does not presume to settle scientific questions or to replace politics. But I am concerned to encourage an honest and open debate so that particular interests or ideologies will not prejudice the common good.

Wise words indeed.

Tallguy88 · Jun 23, 2015

classicalhero said:
Then you must be against abortion, since they use invasive ultrasound to make sure everything is removed.

But i wonder how many people are taking the Pope's advice about this?

Wise words indeed.

I'm against the state mandating an invasive ultrasound. I'm not against mandating a non invasive ultrasound/sonogram.

frenchdefense · Jun 23, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
Where did anyone say it should be kept legal? I said it's better to touch hearts individually. Read for content.

Hmm.....

Let's look:

Root of Jesse said:
Politics is aside from the moral issue. It's better to touch hearts individually rather than impose sweeping rules.

It would seem that you didn't complete the sentence when responding to me.

You know how you're losing an argument ?

You cherry pick your own statements.

Root of Jesse · Jun 23, 2015

frenchdefense said:
Hmm.....

Let's look:

It would seem that you didn't complete the sentence when responding to me.

You know how you're losing an argument ?

You cherry pick your own statements.

The pot calling the kettle black? You cherry picked what you wanted to read from my response. I'm not arguing, I'm stating my opinion.

frenchdefense · Jun 23, 2015

Rhamiel said:
a constitutional amendment is possible, hard but possible
restrictive laws like in Texas are possible raising the standards so that many abortion clinics have to close
raise taxes on clinics that preform abortions 700%
use zoning laws to limit where abortion clinics can set up
there are all kinds of ways to denture people from having abortions

now I think we should also make sure that women know they have options, that pregnant women are taken care of, physically, emotionally, economically and spiritually
I think we need to work on dealing with systemic injustices and inequalities that hurt many americans, these are ways to foster a culture of life

but anyone who is getting upset that I talked about ways to detour people from having abortions
those are the same tactics that enviromentalists want to use against companies
carbon tax, higher and higher regulations, zoning laws

what is the old saying? what is good for the goose is good for the gander

So we're all clear here:

You are equating women's bodies and right to make her own medical decisions with corporate regulation ?

So that a women has fewer rights than a corporation ( because a corp can actually decide the level of reproductive medication it is involved in )

smaneck · Jun 23, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
Right. Social encyclicals are calls to the individual.

And all this time I thought it was guidance to the bishops.

smaneck · Jun 23, 2015

Rhamiel said:
restrictive laws like in Texas are possible raising the standards so that many abortion clinics have to close
raise taxes on clinics that preform abortions 700%
use zoning laws to limit where abortion clinics can set up
there are all kinds of ways to denture people from having abortions

Most of the ones you just named are unconstitutional.

now I think we should also make sure that women know they have options, that pregnant women are taken care of, physically, emotionally, economically and spiritually

Generally speaking the ones most opposed to abortion are also the ones who scream the most about welfare mothers having too many children.

I think we need to work on dealing with systemic injustices and inequalities that hurt many americans, these are ways to foster a culture of life

That would help, but the reason abortion rates have fallen rather dramatically is because of the availability of much more effective forms of birth control.

but anyone who is getting upset that I talked about ways to detour people from having abortions
those are the same tactics that enviromentalists want to use against companies
carbon tax, higher and higher regulations, zoning laws

what is the old saying? what is good for the goose is good for the gander

Here's the difference. Polluting is not a constitutional right.

smaneck · Jun 23, 2015

LoAmmi said:
Otherwise, you're looking at the Court overruling Roe v. Wade, which it hasn't done and I find it doubtful to ever happen unless some president stacks the deck with specific people on the Court

Already have. The majority of the members on the Supreme Court are Catholics.

smaneck · Jun 23, 2015

Root of Jesse said:
Government need not be a nanny, though. I don't think anything I've said goes against the Pope's sentiments.

And you will know whether that is true enough only after you read the Encyclical.

smaneck · Jun 23, 2015

paulm50 said:
Not sure if you're joking, or just no idea what you're talking about.

You are being Poed.

Rhamiel · Jun 23, 2015

no woman has the right to murder her unborn baby
the fabrication of this right is a travesty of justice

The Pope's environmental encyclical has been released, discuss here.

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