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The place of Sacred Tradition in the first Church Council.

ozso

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I did not say it had anything to do with Acts 15.
ozso said: What difference does it make when the word of mouth matched what was written down by Luke?

Xeno.of.athens replied: Does it? I see nothing in Acts 15 that exactly matches the sheet story.

What does Acts 15 have to do with the sheet story?
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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ozso said: What difference does it make when the word of mouth matched what was written down by Luke?

Xeno.of.athens replied: Does it? I see nothing in Acts 15 that exactly matches the sheet story.

What does Acts 15 have to do with the sheet story?
Like I said, nothing; but you appear to think it is the same thing.
 
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ozso

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Like I said, nothing; but you appear to think it is the same thing.
The next time you say something that doesn't follow what I said, and also doesn't make any sense, I won't try figuring it out.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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The next time you say something that doesn't follow what I said, and also doesn't make any sense, I won't try figuring it out.
Why do you make me recount what you wrote, surely you can remember it for yourself? You posted:
What does it have to do with Acts 15? Specifically Acts 15:20 I presume. Considering there's no reason to conclude the verbal account was any different than the written account.
I replied:
I did not say it had anything to do with Acts 15.
As can be seen you brought up the "sheet story" by implication (Acts 10) when I was discussing Acts 15. You said that what Peter says in Acts 15 is the same things that is written in Acts 10, but it isn't and you know it.
 
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ozso

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As can be seen you brought up the "sheet story" by implication (Acts 10) when I was discussing Acts 15. You said that what Peter says in Acts 15 is the same things that is written in Acts 10, but it isn't and you know it.
No, that's not what I said.

The longstanding argument is that what we read in the bible was told word of mouth before it was written. So I asked what difference does that make when the word of mouth version was the same as the written version.

The answer is, it makes no difference at all. Therefore the constant declaration that what's in the bible was spoken before it was written, is moot.

Xeno.of.athens said:
While what you wrote is mostly true it nevertheless misses the point that Saint Peter's vision was not yet written down as scripture, the book of The Acts of the Apostles was not yet written, so saint Peter's vision was Sacred Tradition handed down by word of mouth and it was the decisive argument in the council.

ozso said:
What difference does it make when the word of mouth matched what was written down by Luke?
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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The longstanding argument is that what we read in the bible was told word of mouth before it was written.
That sir is a Protestant argument, it is not my argument.
 
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ozso

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That sir is a Protestant argument, it is not my argument.
No, it's a Catholic argument that you made and @Bob Crowley made in post #7. I've seen that argument made by Catholics countless times in other threads.

Bob Crowley said:
The action of the church council took place long before Luke wrote it down. Luke's record was after the event. The church's authority was applied first.

ozso said:
It was about 16 years before. But again, what difference does it make when the verbal matches the written?
 
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ozso

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I never argue that Sacred Tradition is the same as sacred Scripture. It isn't the same.
Catholocism argues that Catholic tradition is a greater authority than scripture. Therefore the magisterium went ahead and instituted unscriptural practices centuries after scripture was written.

The lion's share of which was the institution of venerating/worshiping (the two words are interchangeable) Mary. Venerating/worshiping shrines of human remains. Praying to / communicating with the dead. Bowing to statues and icons.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Catholocism argues that Catholic tradition is a greater authority than scripture.
That is not true.
Sacred Tradition is an interpretive authority, and it is subordinate to Sacred Scripture.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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institution of venerating/worshiping (the two words are interchangeable)
That is not true. Veneration is applicable to creatures, such as Blessed Mary and the saints. Adoration (worship) is rightly given to God alone.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Praying to / communicating with the dead.
The saints are not dead, have you never read what Jesus said to the Sadducees?
Matthew 22:32 NASB 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
 
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ozso

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The saints are not dead, have you never read what Jesus said to the Sadducees?
Matthew 22:32 NASB 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
I've seen that posted by other Catholics several times in other threads. And my response is no one ever communicated with anyone who died in all of scripture. Except for when Saul contacted Samuel through witchcraft. Every single example of prayer is directed towards God the Father alone. Catholocism also cites Psalm 103:20. Ironic using scripture to explain the institution of unscriptural practices. Even though it fails to do so.
Communing with the dead is a practice that was instituted by the magisterium well after the time of the Apostles.
 
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ozso

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That is not true.
Sacred Tradition is an interpretive authority, and it is subordinate to Sacred Scripture.
Then why do Catholics practice the unscriptural traditions I listed? It is plainly clear it is not because scripture tells them to, since it does not, but because the magisterium tells them to.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Communing with the dead is a practice that was instituted by the magisterium well after the time of the Apostles.
Really? What about Jewish prayers for the dead and what about 2 Maccabees 12? You would benefit from reading a Catholic bible instead of sticking to the Jewish Tanakh + New Testament that most Protestants use.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Semantics.
Wasn't your own argument all about semantics? Honestly, how can I have a conversation with you when on one hand you say that worship and venerate are the same thing when in fact they are not and when I point that out you accuse me of arguing semantics!
 
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