The Pill(s) your opinion

[127.0.0.1]

This is my ONLY concern about Plan B, as I said in my last post. I believe that life begins at fertilization/conception, and the chance that an embryo can be shed before it can implant is my only concern.

As is mine. But I can see where your coming from.

However, on the one hand, I recall reading that technically they can't prove coffee doesn't cause abortions (I'm guessing it's the caffeine) along with rigorous exercise, ascorbic acid (which is in plenty of things), lactation (so some have claimed), or just poor health. But on the other hand, I can see the whole Russian Rulet side of the argument as well. Personally, sometimes I don't even know what to think, since it can get so confusing. Thank God for sterilization!

PS
Even if they monitored someone and implantation failure did occur while they were on the pill...how would they know whether it was the pill or not?

PPS
You mentioned something earlier about not having as much concern over low dose birth control. I'd be curious to hear you reasoning on this.

 

[bluebug83]

To my knowledge, the pill does not cause failed implantations any more than a non-Pill-taking woman's natural body does.

Even if they monitored someone and implantation failure did occur while they were on the pill...how would they know whether it was the pill or not?

Both of these are good points and reasons why I am skeptical of the "pill causes abortions" argument, because there's never a guarantee that a zygote will implant in the uterus even if the lining is perfect. I've always been a bit doubtful that you can consider a woman "pregnant" until the zygote has actually embedded. I see conception as the beginning of the start-of-life process, but I don't really see it having solidified its status as an up-and-coming person until it has successfully implanted. Whether it's a sin to use a method of contraception that works solely by prohibiting implantation (IUD, POP, ECP), I'm not clear on, but those methods definitely concern me less than a surgical abortion.

You mentioned something earlier about not having as much concern over low dose birth control. I'd be curious to hear you reasoning on this.

I can't answer for CatholicWife, but what I remember her saying is that the main concern is over the types of hormones rather than strictly low vs. high dose pills, and this is my understanding. POP's (progesterin only pills) are more likely to work by thinning the lining of the uterus, while combination pills primarily work by suppressing ovulation and thickening cervical mucus (as well as thinning the lining, but the former two work before this one would). The actual amount of hormone in the pill doesn't matter as much as the type.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Both of these are good points and reasons why I am skeptical of the "pill causes abortions" argument, because there's never a guarantee that a zygote will implant in the uterus even if the lining is perfect. I've always been a bit doubtful that you can consider a woman "pregnant" until the zygote has actually embedded. I see conception as the beginning of the start-of-life process, but I don't really see it having solidified its status as an up-and-coming person until it has successfully implanted. Whether it's a sin to use a method of contraception that works solely by prohibiting implantation (IUD, POP, ECP), I'm not clear on, but those methods definitely concern me less than a surgical abortion.

Life begins at conception, but pregnancy begins at implantation; that sounds like a good middle ground argument to me.

I can't answer for CatholicWife, but what I remember her saying is that the main concern is over the types of hormones rather than strictly low vs. high dose pills, and this is my understanding. POP's (progesterin only pills) are more likely to work by thinning the lining of the uterus, while combination pills primarily work by suppressing ovulation and thickening cervical mucus (as well as thinning the lining, but the former two work before this one would). The actual amount of hormone in the pill doesn't matter as much as the type.

My understanding is that progesterone opposes estrogen, thus suppressing ovulation, and maintains the lining of the endometrium while thickening the cervical mucus. But then, I only understand how POP pills work, I don't know too much about how combination pills work.

 

[Catholic Wife]

However, on the one hand, I recall reading that technically they can't prove coffee doesn't cause abortions (I'm guessing it's the caffeine) along with rigorous exercise, ascorbic acid (which is in plenty of things), lactation (so some have claimed), or just poor health.

That's why they warn women to avoid caffeine, lots of medicines and anything else that might cause problems (it's a "CYA" thing ).

PS
Even if they monitored someone and implantation failure did occur while they were on the pill...how would they know whether it was the pill or not?

I don't know that they could unless they monitored EVERY WOMAN every month (an impossible task).

PPS
You mentioned something earlier about not having as much concern over low dose birth control. I'd be curious to hear you reasoning on this.

Like bluebug mentioned, my main concern is over the types of hormones (Plan B has only progesterone) rather than strictly low vs. high dose pills and how they work.

The synthetic estrogen in the combination pill works to prevent the ovaries from releasing an egg. If no egg is released, there is nothing to be fertilized by sperm and the woman cannot get pregnant. In addition, the synthetic estrogen works by suppressing the body's normal hormonal pattern (which involves one egg being developed per menstrual cycle and released for possible fertilization).

The synthetic progestin (present in both types of pills) works to thicken the cervical mucus which hinders the movement of sperm (they can't get to the egg), inhibit the egg's ability to travel through the fallopian tubes, partially suppress the sperm's ability to unite with (and thereby fertilize) the egg, and alter the uterine lining so (in the event that an egg is released and fertilized) the egg will likely not be able to implant into the uterine wall. (a last resort)

Life begins at conception, but pregnancy begins at implantation; that sounds like a good middle ground argument to me.

I can agree with this as well.

 

[127.0.0.1]

That's why they warn women to avoid caffeine, lots of medicines and anything else that might cause problems (it's a "CYA" thing ).

My point was that you could take it to the extreme if you really wanted. I'm sure you could find a lot of things that could possibly cause a miscarriage under certain circumstances. Like exercise, at what point exactly, is it rigorous?

The synthetic progestin (present in both types of pills) works to thicken the cervical mucus which hinders the movement of sperm (they can't get to the egg), inhibit the egg's ability to travel through the fallopian tubes, partially suppress the sperm's ability to unite with (and thereby fertilize) the egg, and alter the uterine lining so (in the event that an egg is released and fertilized) the egg will likely not be able to implant into the uterine wall. (a last resort)

I looked for a study to find out more about this on PubMed. I'm still looking, but I did find this report which I thought was interesting.
Progestin Treatment Induces Apoptosis and Modulates Transforming Growth Factor-{beta} in the Uterine Endometrium.

However, I think I'm beginning to understand what your saying a little better. Your hangup is mostly over POP pills, but you don't think combination pills are as bad, right?

 

[bluebug83]

Like bluebug mentioned, my main concern is over the types of hormones (Plan B has only progesterone) rather than strictly low vs. high dose pills and how they work.

The synthetic estrogen in the combination pill works to prevent the ovaries from releasing an egg. If no egg is released, there is nothing to be fertilized by sperm and the woman cannot get pregnant. In addition, the synthetic estrogen works by suppressing the body's normal hormonal pattern (which involves one egg being developed per menstrual cycle and released for possible fertilization).

The synthetic progestin (present in both types of pills) works to thicken the cervical mucus which hinders the movement of sperm (they can't get to the egg), inhibit the egg's ability to travel through the fallopian tubes, partially suppress the sperm's ability to unite with (and thereby fertilize) the egg, and alter the uterine lining so (in the event that an egg is released and fertilized) the egg will likely not be able to implant into the uterine wall. (a last resort)

A wonderful explanation! From my understanding, combination pills are the "normal" pill type, the first type that came out and what most pills are. POP's are a fairly recent invention made primarily for women who can't handle the fake estrogen.

 

[Robinsegg]

A wonderful explanation! From my understanding, combination pills are the "normal" pill type, the first type that came out and what most pills are. POP's are a fairly recent invention made primarily for women who can't handle the fake estrogen.

Actually, POP pills are also often given to nursing mothers, too . . . since the estrogen would have a negative effect.
Rachel

 

[Catholic Wife]

My point was that you could take it to the extreme if you really wanted. I'm sure you could find a lot of things that could possibly cause a miscarriage under certain circumstances. Like exercise, at what point exactly, is it rigorous?

I don't think anyone can say for certain.

Progestin Treatment Induces Apoptosis and Modulates Transforming Growth Factor-{beta} in the Uterine Endometrium.

That's an interetesing report.

However, I think I'm beginning to understand what your saying a little better. Your hangup is mostly over POP pills, but you don't think combination pills are as bad, right?

Exactly. The excess estrogen hinders egg development and release. No egg = no pregnancy. But a woman's body need progestin/progesterone for balance.

I know this if for post-menopausal women, but I wonder if the effects are the same for pre-menopausal women.
Effects of hormone replacement therapy on endometrial histology in postmenopausal women.