The Pill causing abortion--Moved from Christian Advice

[max1120]

Ok here is another reason you should not try to dissuade others from using the birth control pill:

1. The birth control pill helps prevent ovarian cancer in women. Women taking the pill experience a marked decrease in their overall risk of developing ovarian cancer which can be deadly.

2. The birth control pill prevents unwanted pregnancy. What if one of your unmarried coworkers happens to get pregnant. This would go double for those who are too young to realistically think about having a family. Teen pregnancy rates need to come down and the pill is a great vehicle for bringing that number down. Think of the economic, social, and ethical issues that are affected by her not using the pill. Both mother and child would suffer needlessly.

3. The birth control pill helps reduce abortions in this country by helping to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies that occur. If all children were planned the need for abortion would be limited to only three factors, life of the mother, health of the mother, and birth defects in the fetus.

This should help you see at least 5 good reasons not to oppose the use of the birth control pill. In fact we should be supporting women and encourage responsible reproduction!

Max

 

[MarkSB]

Inklingchick,

I feel as you do when it comes to these issues. I feel that life and its creation is something to be revered looked upon with awe, and that carte blanche birth control really takes away from that and from our purity as believers in Christ.

It looks like you have reasoned out what it is you believe with your faith at heart. This is something people need to learn through faith. Just live out your faith and convictions for yourself and keep God at heart, and if the situation arise where you feel compelled to talk to someone about it then share your faith with them. I think Ariel has offered excellent advice.

Hello Susannah,

I've had times too when I thought I should witness, or do this that or the other--and then if I would feel guilty if I didn't do it.

But may I suggest? Instead of sending unwanted e-mails, why not pray and ask God to open doors for you?

Let me give you an example. When I was taking Hebrew classes, I wanted to witness to my teacher so badly. I felt I should, but I reflected that if I did it openly, I would be rebuffed immediately. So instead I prayed for an open door. One day there was no one else in class--the other people didn't come, and I was the only student there. Suddenly, my Jewish teacher asked me about my faith and why I believed in Jesus. This was an open door! For 45 minutes, until the next class came in, I presented Jesus, using OT Scriptures, including Deut. 18:15. She listened attentively, asking me questions. But when the next class started coming in, I could tell she wanted me to hush, so I did.

If I had started witnessing on my own, she would never have listened. Instead I prayed and waited for God to give me an opportunity. He did.

I believe this could help you also. Unwanted emails are almost always deleted immediately, but what if God gave you an open door?

Take care and may God be with you.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I feel that life and its creation is something to be revered looked upon with awe, and that carte blanche birth control really takes away from that and from our purity as believers in Christ.

That's kind of like blaming cars for accidents.

 

[BigNorsk]

Marv--

from what I understand, actually the modern low-dose BCPs are more likely to cause an abortion, not less likely, because they don't inhibit ovulation nearly as well, so more eggs get released , thus more eggs get fertilized, thus more eggs don't implant...

I would love everyone's prayer/continued thoughts about this. I 've probably -- what with posting to newsgroups asking for advice, changing my gmail status, emailing all the women in my personal gmail address book, and posting to a pro-life group to let people know, told more than 500 people about the Pill at this point. I'm going to blog about it and I think I'll be really good at presenting the pro-life, life-begins-at-conception case, partly because when I was a teenager I was pro choice. I ordered a custom bumper sticker saying "The Pill can cause early-term miscarriages," with a web address that I'm going to use to start a site about this, and I may-- I'll have to pray for courage and wisdom-- stick it on my car, so that at least some of the women who work at my site will see it. And yet it's the ones I haven't reached, but could, that I think about.

I mean, there are a million different ways that I could reach lots of different groups of women...there are two womens colleges right nearby me, and I could put up fliers...and that seems like a good idea, and I might do it, but I don;t feel guilty about not doing it in the way that I do about not sending the work email.

I feel like I'm building a case for why Bluebonnet is wrong and I shouldn't/don;t need to send it. I don't really want to make decisions by building cases, but by resting in God's love and taking as much objective information into account as I can. The problem--part of the problem-- is that I have obsessive-compulsive disorder, so I get fixated on ideas that feel like my conscience speaking, but are in fact just my brain using its neurotransmitters wrong, so I can't tell if this is conscience, God's voice, or my OCD.

How do we know what, of all the good that we could do in the world, is the good that we should do? Are we allowed to pick our battles, or our battlefields? How can I even hesitate, knowing that I could, statistically, and probably would, save lives? But that's true of any good thing we do-- if I send $5 to WorldVision instead of buying a latte, I could, statistically, save a life, but I don't think that means that I can never buy a latte.

What I want to want is to rest in God's love and do His will with my whole heart, to delight myself in Him and for Him to be delighted in me. I'm scared that if I don't send this email I will be cutting myself off from Him.

S

What we know with good certainty is that the low dose oral contraceptives do not cause abortion after the point where pregnancy is detected.

We also know with fair certainty that more eggs are released than the older, higher dosage pills, particularly with POP's.

What we actually don't know is rates of contraception or or inhibition of inplantation. While widely mentioned, I'm not aware of any good data.

We do also know that pregnancies do occur. We know this from abortions performed and from births. It would be easy to take things like the supposed impossibility of implantation with uterine linings that are too thin according to some studies on things like in vitro fertilization where doctors are trying to produce pregnancy. And take things like studies on the thickness of uterine linings that have been measured in oral contraceptive studies and thereby conclude that oral contraceptives must cause inplantation to not take place because it would be impossible with uterine linings that thin, and yet we have pregnancies. So we know our logical deduction isn't correct.

So we should be very careful making deductions. Such as your deduction that more pregnancies are taking place and then being ended with oral contraception. That's a logical deduction and it's not without foundation, but it's not actually in evidence. The true answer is, we don't know. We don't know if and how often.

That would really be my only objection is that people are saying things and giving the impression that they know, and they don't.

I wouldn't object at all to you letting people know it is a possibility. I would hope that you would also disseminate things at the same time about things that we know causes misscarriage. Like uncontrolled diabetes or high blood pressure, or that women with autoimmune disorders like lupus often need to receive help to carry a child. I wouldn't even mind that you included that some common venereal diseases like herpes simplex and chlamydia increase one's chance of miscarriage and is another reason to abstain until marriage. I'm all for information. I just like it to be correct.

Marv

 

[Ave Maria]

PaladinGirl...That is very true. I am not catholic but we have a lot of catholic's that are friends of ours who are married. All of them use or have used the birth control pill. The church does not seem inclined to accept that pill is not harmful to women nor is harmful to society. But all you have to is go to a catholic mass on Sunday, anywhere in the United States, Canada, or western Europe, and see the number of married couples with no children, 1 or 2 children and yet have been married 10 or more years. Compare that to 30, 40, or 50 years ago when the same church would have been filled with 5 or 6 or even 7 child families. Then you will see what I am talking about. The pope says "no birth control pills" but catholic families in this country do not accept that teaching and do not seem to folllow it at all.

Max

I know but who can blame them? I mean, I sure wouldn't want to have 5, 6, or 7 children! 1 or 2 is plenty for me!

 

[Inklingchick]

Hey, all,

Marv, thanks again for your thoughts. It seems like we're partly in agreement, in that a big part of my passion about this has to do with the question of informed consent-- there are so many women out there who just don't know about how the Pill can work, many of whom would not take the risk that their choice of using the Pill might contribute to an early miscarriage. I know that the research is still spotty, but, I mean, the Pill was as far as I know designed to have the non-implantation effect if the first two methods fail. Just because the third method also fails sometimes, and the embryo/blastocyst does implant, doesn't mean that it never has any effect. It almost certainly does; it's just not clear how often.

Max, I'm really not an ideologue at all; I don't think contraception per se is wrong; it's just that I do believe that life begins at conception. I've waffled on that in the past-- and I was raised pro-choice, went to the march on washington in '92 when I was 15-- but what it comes down to for me is that even though it seems totally weird to say that a collection of cells busily dividing has the same moral status as an eight-month baby in utero, or a one-month baby ex utero, it seems even weirder to say that it doesn't. I mean, if we're not us from day one, when exactly do we become us? You know? It may be that a zygote is not a person...but I kind of just don't want to take that risk.

And I also worry about overpopulation and resource depletion... but hormonal methods of birth control are not the only thing going! You got yer diaphragms, yer sponges (which always make me think of that episode of Seinfeld...), yer condoms, and for those who tend as I do towards the crunchy granola, the gadget-and-chemical free, exportable-to-the-developing-world-without-making-them-dependent-on-consumer-products, all-natural Fertility Awareness Method. My friend introduced me to this concept this past weekend when we were at Borders-- we ended up buying all three copies of a book called Taking Charge of Your Fertility (the author is Toni Weschler) that were on the shelf because she was getting one for our friend who's getting married in March, and she wanted one for herself, and I bought one. My friend was getting all firey about this, talking about how if all women were taught this stuff in high school there would be massively fewer unplanned pregnancies, and we would all just be in way better touch with what was going on with our bodies...plus, it involves filling in charts, which appeals to the standardized-test dork in me.

I don't want eight kids either, I don't think, but I definitely feel like I don't want to be doing anything that would promote the death of a life that has already begun. And I want to spread as much accurate information about this as I can, because I know there are a lot of other women out there who feel the same way.

peace

S

 

[Inklingchick]

And Mark, thank you so much for your support. It means a lot.

S

 

[richmind]

Its really a big question. Wouldn't you be risking your job in case some of the women got offended and reported the email to your superiors?

 

[lux et lex]

I would be extraordinarily angry if I received such an email at work and would definitely report it to my superiors or the superiors of the person who sent said email.

 

[max1120]

I have to say if I received such an email I would be highly offended! I doubt it would change my views on using the pill but it would prompt me to go to your supervisor and demand something be done about it!

Do you realize you will most likely change no ones mind on this subject?
Do you realize you will most likely not get anyone to stop using or not use the birth control pill as a result of your emails?
Do you realize people you work with are going to be greatly offended and have a great deal of anger toward you because of your insensitive and intrusive emails?
Do you realize that you will most likely be reprimanded and likely fired if it happens twice?
Do you realize you may be making yourself a target for a civil lawsuit?
Do you realize you will likely be putting yourself through all of this and getting no benefit for yourself or anyone or any cause you may support?

Before you send such a horrible email you may want to contemplate these things. I pray you will reconsider such a bad choice.

Max

 

[LoisGriffin]

I would be extraordinarily angry if I received such an email at work and would definitely report it to my superiors or the superiors of the person who sent said email.

To be honest so would I. I would be furious that someone would send something like that in work time and trying to force their opinions on me. I am not on the pill but it will still make me very mad.

Work is not an appropriate place for those sort of emails.

 

[MarkSB]

That's kind of like blaming cars for accidents.

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Inklingchick]

No, it did make sense--I think I understood what TexasLynn was saying, Mark-- you'd said that contraceptives take away from our purity as Christians, and TL said that that was blaming a technology for the possible bad effects of the technology. Is that right, TL?

And Max, I know it would be a weird, weird, thing to do that would make many people angry at me and probably not change anyone's mind. I wouldn't be looking to change minds-- the real audience of the email would be people who are already pro-life and who, given the information about the pill, would decide not to use it. But I don;t knwo who those people specifically are, and there's 60 women who work off-site who I have no way of getting to know and finding out, and I just feel that if there's even ONE woman who would stop taking the pill b/c of the email, that would save at least ONE baby, and so how dare I not send it? You know? Because if I don't, isn't that like saying that one baby's life isn't worth my [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing people off and maybe getting fired?

I know my thinking about this is a little wonky. That's why I'm asking you guys for advice, trying to think and pray this through before I do anything irreversible. The problem is that I;ve been obsessing about this so much that I've kind of made the potential-babies-that-I-would-be-saving almost real in my mind, so that I feel like if I decide not to, I'll be betraying them and God... Yes, i know this is weird. That's why I'm asking for help. How am I thinking aboutt this wrong, if I am? I am spreading the word abouty the pill in other ways...why doesn't it feel like enough? Please help me think about this sanely.

 

[Zeena]

I'd just like to state the obvious for the sake of peace in your heart precious Saint..

God does not NEED you, He WANTS you

 

[Texas Lynn]

No, it did make sense--I think I understood what TexasLynn was saying, Mark-- you'd said that contraceptives take away from our purity as Christians, and TL said that that was blaming a technology for the possible bad effects of the technology. Is that right, TL?

Not exactly. Contraception that works is one of the greatest technological advances of the 20th Century, one which has also produced many social benefits, among these the ultimate divorce between sex and childbearing. I'm not sure that a former state of "purity" that some imagine was present vaguely in the past ever existed.

 

[anonymous1515]

And Max, I know it would be a weird, weird, thing to do that would make many people angry at me and probably not change anyone's mind. I wouldn't be looking to change minds-- the real audience of the email would be people who are already pro-life and who, given the information about the pill, would decide not to use it. But I don;t knwo who those people specifically are, and there's 60 women who work off-site who I have no way of getting to know and finding out, and I just feel that if there's even ONE woman who would stop taking the pill b/c of the email, that would save at least ONE baby, and so how dare I not send it? You know? Because if I don't, isn't that like saying that one baby's life isn't worth my [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing people off and maybe getting fired?

I know my thinking about this is a little wonky. That's why I'm asking you guys for advice, trying to think and pray this through before I do anything irreversible. The problem is that I;ve been obsessing about this so much that I've kind of made the potential-babies-that-I-would-be-saving almost real in my mind, so that I feel like if I decide not to, I'll be betraying them and God... Yes, i know this is weird. That's why I'm asking for help. How am I thinking aboutt this wrong, if I am? I am spreading the word abouty the pill in other ways...why doesn't it feel like enough? Please help me think about this sanely.

Hi Inkling. I thought I would throw in my 2 cents, as I have received these sorts of emails at work before as well. Like others have said, you are being paid to work for your company - not to discuss pro-life/pro-choice issues. In addition, by sending out a mass email to every woman in your company, you are likely going to offend many women who are already knowledgable about how the pill works, yet have made their decision to use it based on their own worldviews.

Like you said, you are trying to target women who are already pro-life, but use the pill as a means of avoiding conception. My advice would be this: after work hours, rather than sending out a mass email detailing the risks of using birth control pills, try to find a way to address those women who are already interested in pro-life issues. Perhaps you can send out an email to women at the office asking any interested persons to meet on an internet chat room (like CF) or to check out your blog or something to discuss these issues. This way, women who are genuinely interested in the topic can come and discuss it with you at their leisure, and those who aren't will not be forced to read about your opinion.

Here is perhaps a better idea (though it won't reach women at remote offices). Design a pamphlet indicating that you are interested in discussing issues of women's health and Christian values. Post this pamphlet on a public bulletin board in your office, and include your email address so that interested persons can check out the pamphlet and decide to respond if they see fit. This way, you are not directly approaching anybody and making it uncomfortable, nor are you forcing your opinions on other people at the workplace. Make sure in your pamphlet that you don't include information about the birth control pill. Rather, you want your pamphlet to simply direct interested persons to your email, so that you can arrange a chat later on.

Hope that helps.

 

[Trashionista]

Anyone who's picked up a pamphlet on the Pill before knows [or should know] it prevents an egg from being released or from an embryo implanting along the uterine wall.

So, I don't see why it's your place to tell other women using the Pill makes them murderers. Quite frankly, I'd suggest minding your own business if you're not any of these women's OB/GYNs or they haven't asked your opinion. I think it would be in very poor taste to send out a Facebook group or email.

 

[Texas Lynn]

There is no support for the notion birth control is immoral.

 

[MarkSB]

The OP wasn't asking to debate the morality of it, the purpose was to gain advice as to what to do with these beliefs, what kind of boundaries there are in discussing this type of thing, ect.

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

So, I don't see why it's your place to tell other women using the Pill makes them murderers. Quite frankly, I'd suggest minding your own business if you're not any of these women's OB/GYNs or they haven't asked your opinion. I think it would be in very poor taste to send out a Facebook group or email.

I agree 100%. Unless you are that woman's gynecologist/nurse-midwife, it's none of your buisness. Stay out of it. I too would be very angry if I recieved your e-mail.

I hope to be a nurse-midwife one day, so I've studied alot about the Pill. It does NOT and in fact CANNOT cause an abortion. The word abortion means ending a pregnancy. Pregnancy starts at implantation, NOT fertilization(the vast majority of fertilized eggs naturally miscarry anyway). The Pill does not have any effect on an embryo that has already implanted. Therefore, it's not an abortion.
It's your opinion that the Pill is wrong, but it is not a fact, and you have no right to try to impose your opinion on other women.