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Featured The Performance Trap...? How do we get out of it...?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neogaia777, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Lukaris

    Lukaris Orthodox Christian Supporter

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    My time is a little tight right now & have not read the entire thread.

    Anyway, I think the parable of the rich young man is a good example here ( especially in Matthew 19:16-24 ). The Lord tells him to keep the commandments but the young man says he has “kept” them. There is the trap, as we live, we keep not “kept” the commandments unless we make an ultimate sacrifice to be “perfect” as the Lord tells the young man.

    We live by faith & try to love God & neighbor by the Lord’s commandments (John 14:15-18, Romans 13:8-10).
     
  2. SaintNick

    SaintNick Member

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    Best I can do is try to hold the 10 commandments.
    I have a Daily devotion book called "Jesus Calling" by Sarah Young. (You may have read it.)

    A quote from part of the devotion I read today is :
    "Remember that there is no condemnation for those who belong to Me. You have been judged NOT GUILTY for all eternity. Trust me, and don't be afraid; for I am your strength, song and salvation."
     
  3. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good...if you belong to Him.
    Do thieves and murderers belong to Him?
    How about liars and adulterers?
    Keep those commandments, and manifest the Son of God on earth.
     
  4. SaintNick

    SaintNick Member

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    I know I belong to him.
    An if I do and his word says so then of course.
     
  5. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

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    Praise the Lord for our ability to walk in the light instead of in the darkness.
    And to walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
     
  6. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    The Bible tells us that before a person is saved, they are without the power to act as God wants them to. They are bound under the power of the devil, the World and the impulses of their own flesh. (Ephesians 2:1-3) It will take divine power to make such a person spiritually alive and desirous of a different, Christ-centered life. If there, then, is one thing the Gospel makes clear it is that we are weak - so weak we can't do anything to help ourselves and so God must move toward us, take the initiative, and save us.

    What has changed once a person has been born-again? Being saved, are they able to act on their own to be who God wants them to be? No. The weak person that God saved is the weak person God also must transform and empower. He is the Power Source for Christian living. (2 Thessalonians 5:23-24) No child of God can live righteously and do so consistently apart from total dependence upon God.

    Oh, a believer has some small reserves of determination and strength. They can - for short spurts - appear to live as God has called them to. But, sooner or later, they run dry of power and desire to live God's way and fall back into sin. It can take many years of trying to live God's way in this way before a person is fully convinced of the fact that they haven't in themselves the capacity to be who God wants them to be. And when they really, truly know how bankrupt of power they are, then it is they begin to rely upon God as they should and so finally begin to conquer sin.

    When I hear a Christian say, then, that he is trying to live God's way, I understand that he is not yet fully convinced of his own profound weakness and is attempting in his own human power to do what only God can do. By those trying to be holy there is often lip service given to God's power, some quoting of the "all things are possible" verse, a token prayer to God for help, but in the final analysis it is human effort trying to accomplish a divine end. And failure is always the inevitable result.

    This is often because the life of Christ only manifests in the midst of our weakness and surrender - two things humans are loathe to acknowledge and do. Only when a believer has laid down his own self-effort and striving and yielded himself totally to God is God then able to fill him with His power and transform the believer's desires and behaviour. It often takes believers years to get to such a place - some never get there. The journey to the realization of utter personal impotency and the consequent submissive dependency upon God is, sadly, a rare thing.

    2 Corinthians 12:9-10
    9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
    10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019 at 2:11 PM
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Do former thieves and murderers belong to Him?
    How about former liars and adulterers?

    So easy and so quick to judge, often without thinking, or thinking it through either...

    And you are the judge of another's time or timing are you...? or God's timing in another person's life are you...?

    Think people, think...

    Don't be so quick to deal out death and condemnation and judgement...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 11:52 PM
  8. SaintNick

    SaintNick Member

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    Lol it's fine. I know my past better than anybody else. It was a scary thing to see that since my youth I was working with the devil.
     
  9. Greengardener

    Greengardener for love is of God Supporter

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    Neo, keeping God's precepts will help life work. Life works when our hearts/souls are converted toward God. Life works for simple people who pay attention to what God says and obey it because it makes them wise. His word is a light to our journey, shows us where to step and where to avoid stepping. In our obedience to His commandments, which are not grievous, we show that we have put our trust/faith/confidence in God. Still at best, we are never exemplary. We know we come up short, we miss the mark of the perfect responses and the conversion of the heart that the precepts of God can offer. It's not about earning acceptance with God by simply doing what God told us to do: that's where grace comes in, amazing grace, demonstrated in the OT by faith in the types that looked forward to Jesus, demonstrated in the NT by Jesus Himself, our Passover Lamb. Our humanity is well understood by the Manufacturer. He gave us a Manual. We study the recommended settings, so to speak, and we go back at it for process improvement. When we sin, we repent. We put our faith in His love and the Lamb slain for our transgressions. God assures us that Christ died for the ungodly. He loves us with a goal that we would not want to stay ungodly. Still, the choice is ours.

    As you noted, there is a cyclic nature of this, so God set up cyclic reminders to assist His people in Leviticus 23, beautiful reminders if we would pay attention. The reminders are out there in nature as well. The branches can't bear fruit without the vine. Jesus is the vine, we are the branches. He, the Master Gardener, assures us He will prune those of us bearing fruit so that we will bear MORE - MUCH fruit, showing that we are abiding in Christ. Look at families: the Loving Father welcomes back prodigal sons, and He scourges the sons He loves, so we know in His disciplining of our wild ways that it's from His great love to call us sons and not illegitimate nobodies.

    That's what came to mind when I read your original post. I hope it may be helpful to you.



    Not withstanding God can do whatever God wants to do, including save a soul on a deathbed or on the cross hanging beside Jesus, but the usual course of events for the rest of us is to use the gift of living a life to add to our faith diligence, kindness, and brotherly love (as Peter mentioned) and in general grow increasingly fruitful and not be found empty. I don't have any examples from Scriptures to show that God forces people into godliness, but I am glad He pursues us with His love to return to Him.
     
  10. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

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    If their cessation from sin is due to the gift of repentance, from God, Yes, they do belong to Him.

    If your intention is to prove that liars, adulterers, thieves, and murderers "belong to Him"...you are wasting your time.

    Are not those things works of the flesh?
    It is written..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:1)
    That leaves the condemnation to those who walk after the flesh.
     
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