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<blockquote data-quote="Yahweh Nissi" data-source="post: 2001258" data-attributes="member: 7848"><p>You see - this is what is wrong with proof-texting. You can 'proove' most things by quoting a single few-verses passage. If you just look earlier to verse 12, you see that here Paul is answering a particular line of heretical thought - "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, <em>how can some of you say that there is no resurrestion from the dead?</em>[NIV]"</p><p></p><p>You can see from the verses quoted below, from Jesus, Paul and Isaiah, that it was the cross and Jesus death and blood shed there that is the crux of the gospel. <em>Of course</em> the resurection was absolutely crucial as well, as seen from the Matthew quote. As said in the passage you quoted, without the resurection our faith is in vain, because without it any forgiveness of sins is meaningless - we would just die anyway. But as I said before - better that then an eternity with our sins unforgiven and therefore outcast from God. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Matthew 16:21</p><p>21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, <em>and that he <strong>must be killed</strong> <u>and</u> on the third day be <strong>raised to life.</strong></em>[NIV]</p><p></p><p>1Cor 1:18-24 </p><p>18For the <em>message of the <strong>cross</strong></em> is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:</p><p> "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;</p><p> the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."</p><p>20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23<em>but we preach <strong>Christ crucified:</strong></em> a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.[NIV]</p><p></p><p>2Cor 1:1-5 </p><p>1When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2<em>For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him <strong>crucified.</strong></em> 3I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.[NIV]</p><p></p><p>Gal 6:12-16</p><p>12Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14<em>May I never boast except in the <strong>cross</strong> of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been <strong>crucified</strong> to me, and I to the world.</em> 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.[NIV]</p><p></p><p>Isaiah 23:5</p><p>5But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and <em>by his <strong>wounds</strong> we are healed.</em>[NIV]</p><p></p><p></p><p>Also, look at the whole system of OT sacrifice which pointed to Jesus, which was fulfilled in Him - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them." Mat 5:17 [NIV]. </p><p>The whole system, as far as forgivness of our sin by God was concerned, was based upon the laying on of hands on an animal and confessing your sins over it and it being killed in your place "He is to lay his hand on the head on of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him." Lev 1:4 [NIV]; the cleansing of sin/uncleanliness by blood "He is to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aaron's sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the alter..." Lev 1:5 [NIV], "But any sin offering whose <strong>blood</strong> is brought into the Tent of Meeting <strong>to make atonement</strong> in the Holy Place must not be eaten; it must be burned." Lev 6:30 [NIV]; and the casting-away of sins by the scapegoat "The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a solitary place; and the man shall release it in the desert." Lev 16:22 [NIV]. </p><p>There was nothing in any part of the system of sacrifices, used to make atonement for sin, guilt; cleansing uncleaness; etc, that in any way forshadowed/mirrored/pointed to, the resurrection.</p><p></p><p>But what, you may ask, about the 1Cor 15:17-20 quote that does seem to say no resurrection = no forgiven sins? This post is already too long, so I will start another to answer that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yahweh Nissi, post: 2001258, member: 7848"] You see - this is what is wrong with proof-texting. You can 'proove' most things by quoting a single few-verses passage. If you just look earlier to verse 12, you see that here Paul is answering a particular line of heretical thought - "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, [I]how can some of you say that there is no resurrestion from the dead?[/I][NIV]" You can see from the verses quoted below, from Jesus, Paul and Isaiah, that it was the cross and Jesus death and blood shed there that is the crux of the gospel. [I]Of course[/I] the resurection was absolutely crucial as well, as seen from the Matthew quote. As said in the passage you quoted, without the resurection our faith is in vain, because without it any forgiveness of sins is meaningless - we would just die anyway. But as I said before - better that then an eternity with our sins unforgiven and therefore outcast from God. Matthew 16:21 21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, [I]and that he [B]must be killed[/B] [U]and[/U] on the third day be [B]raised to life.[/B][/I][NIV] 1Cor 1:18-24 18For the [I]message of the [B]cross[/B][/I] is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23[I]but we preach [B]Christ crucified:[/B][/I] a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.[NIV] 2Cor 1:1-5 1When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2[I]For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him [B]crucified.[/B][/I] 3I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.[NIV] Gal 6:12-16 12Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14[I]May I never boast except in the [B]cross[/B] of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been [B]crucified[/B] to me, and I to the world.[/I] 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.[NIV] Isaiah 23:5 5But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and [I]by his [B]wounds[/B] we are healed.[/I][NIV] Also, look at the whole system of OT sacrifice which pointed to Jesus, which was fulfilled in Him - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them." Mat 5:17 [NIV]. The whole system, as far as forgivness of our sin by God was concerned, was based upon the laying on of hands on an animal and confessing your sins over it and it being killed in your place "He is to lay his hand on the head on of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him." Lev 1:4 [NIV]; the cleansing of sin/uncleanliness by blood "He is to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aaron's sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the alter..." Lev 1:5 [NIV], "But any sin offering whose [B]blood[/B] is brought into the Tent of Meeting [B]to make atonement[/B] in the Holy Place must not be eaten; it must be burned." Lev 6:30 [NIV]; and the casting-away of sins by the scapegoat "The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a solitary place; and the man shall release it in the desert." Lev 16:22 [NIV]. There was nothing in any part of the system of sacrifices, used to make atonement for sin, guilt; cleansing uncleaness; etc, that in any way forshadowed/mirrored/pointed to, the resurrection. But what, you may ask, about the 1Cor 15:17-20 quote that does seem to say no resurrection = no forgiven sins? This post is already too long, so I will start another to answer that. [/QUOTE]
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