The Passing of Billy Graham and a flaw in parts of the body of Christ

[Ken Rank]

I would like to share some thoughts about religious attitudes and how we might profane God's name. I am going to use Billy Graham as the example because it is current.

Let me start with a quick but important lesson in Hebrew. In the Hebrew language, the word for name is shem. Shem refers to what we call somebody... but more than that, it deals with the name bearer's character, reputation, and authority. When it comes to a biblical phrase like “walking in the name of God,” it isn't referring to His appellation (what we call Him), it is talking about us walking in a manner that is consistent with His character, that adds to His reputation, and that is within the scope of His will and authority. To profane God's name is literally the opposite. When we walk in a manner that is in contrast to His character, or we take from His reputation, or we walk outside of His will and authority... then we are profaning His shem, we are profaning His name.

So, Billy Graham died and the internet is swarming with posts about Billy, both positive and negative. Personally, I have no opinion... I didn't follow Billy Graham and I will leave it at that. Many of the negative comments, however, have caught my attention, especially by those who claim to follow God's commandments. So I would like to make a point, and to do so, I will assume only for the sake of this point, that Billy was really a sinner.

The first thing we would do is go and talk to him. We would express our concerns and allow him to present his defense, or repent. Assuming he decided to remain in his sin, we might go to him with other leaders, elders... and allow that process to run it's course. And if in the end, he remained unrepentant, he might be rebuked before all so that all might fear and avoid that same mistake.

The problem is, Mr. Graham is dead. He can't be spoken to now, he can't repent or present a defense. He isn't able to be taken before the elders and rebuked... in fact, scripturally speaking, there is no authority here to do ANYTHING because he is dead. There is no protocol for indicting, prosecuting, and convicting the dead, at least, not by man. Even those who think they have the right intent by revealing what they believe was Billy's sins so that others might avoid them... are still convicting him in the process without him present to make a defense. That is still in opposition to scriptural protocol regardless of how they attempt to justify it.

With that in mind, let me bring back the point I made at the beginning of this post about the Hebrew word shem (name). Those who claim to belong to God but who are indeed prosecuting Billy Graham posthumously... are operating outside of God's will. Moreover, they are walking beyond the scope of God's authority and are thus not adding to His reputation. In addition, by no means can we say these people are reflecting the character of God. Thus, these same people I am describing, are profaning the name of God. Ironically, however, they are doing so in some bizarre self-justified way, thinking they are representing His will on the matter. Yet, in a very real way, they are sinning in an attempt to expose their perception of sin. That, my friends, is a religious attitude that does not belong in the body of Christ!

 

[Theodoric]

I would like to share some thoughts about religious attitudes and how we might profane God's name. I am going to use Billy Graham as the example because it is current.

Let me start with a quick but important lesson in Hebrew. In the Hebrew language, the word for name is shem. Shem refers to what we call somebody... but more than that, it deals with the name bearer's character, reputation, and authority. When it comes to a biblical phrase like “walking in the name of God,” it isn't referring to His appellation (what we call Him), it is talking about us walking in a manner that is consistent with His character, that adds to His reputation, and that is within the scope of His will and authority. To profane God's name is literally the opposite. When we walk in a manner that is in contrast to His character, or we take from His reputation, or we walk outside of His will and authority... then we are profaning His shem, we are profaning His name.

So, Billy Graham died and the internet is swarming with posts about Billy, both positive and negative. Personally, I have no opinion... I didn't follow Billy Graham and I will leave it at that. Many of the negative comments, however, have caught my attention, especially by those who claim to follow God's commandments. So I would like to make a point, and to do so, I will assume only for the sake of this point, that Billy was really a sinner.

The first thing we would do is go and talk to him. We would express our concerns and allow him to present his defense, or repent. Assuming he decided to remain in his sin, we might go to him with other leaders, elders... and allow that process to run it's course. And if in the end, he remained unrepentant, he might be rebuked before all so that all might fear and avoid that same mistake.

The problem is, Mr. Graham is dead. He can't be spoken to now, he can't repent or present a defense. He isn't able to be taken before the elders and rebuked... in fact, scripturally speaking, there is no authority here to do ANYTHING because he is dead. There is no protocol for indicting, prosecuting, and convicting the dead, at least, not by man. Even those who think they have the right intent by revealing what they believe was Billy's sins so that others might avoid them... are still convicting him in the process without him present to make a defense. That is still in opposition to scriptural protocol regardless of how they attempt to justify it.

With that in mind, let me bring back the point I made at the beginning of this post about the Hebrew word shem (name). Those who claim to belong to God but who are indeed prosecuting Billy Graham posthumously... are operating outside of God's will. Moreover, they are walking beyond the scope of God's authority and are thus not adding to His reputation. In addition, by no means can we say these people are reflecting the character of God. Thus, these same people I am describing, are profaning the name of God. Ironically, however, they are doing so in some bizarre self-justified way, thinking they are representing His will on the matter. Yet, in a very real way, they are sinning in an attempt to expose their perception of sin. That, my friends, is a religious attitude that does not belong in the body of Christ!

Well said. I'm not a follower of Billy Graham either, but defaming a dead man's memory before he's even in the grave does not seem Christian in either intent or practice.

Partly this is reactive to the praises being heaped upon him, and I understand there may be some pushback against that. But judging the man is God's business, not mine.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I have not spoken out on this issue and consider the topic to be more one of a debate on his influence. History can be debated as to what his positive and negative effects were and if you had opinions before yesterday they have not changed today so the news of his death has sparked interest in discussing his ministry. I have seen both good and bad in my study of Graham and I need to hold myself up to the same scrutiny I judge him on so I intend on being pretty gracious. The number of people who can trace their faith to Billy Graham or a friend or parent that came to faith through him is undeniably a massive number. Dan Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

The negative stuff is out there too.

 

[mukk_in]

I first watched Rev. Graham on TV in 1991 when I was a Graduate student at Virginia Tech. Although I was saved only a year later in 1992, his early messages still echo in my spirit. I particularly like him because my calling, like his, albeit to a much smaller extent is to preach "Christ and Him crucified." Billy Graham is a great man of God in my view, and I'll be glad to see him in heaven. Praise the Lord .

 

[Halbhh]

I have not spoken out on this issue and consider the topic to be more one of a debate on his influence. History can be debated as to what his positive and negative effects were and if you had opinions before yesterday they have not changed today so the news of his death has sparked interest in discussing his ministry. I have seen both good and bad in my study of Graham and I need to hold myself up to the same scrutiny I judge him on so I intend on being pretty gracious. The number of people who can trace their faith to Billy Graham or a friend or parent that came to faith through him is undeniably a massive number. Dan Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

The negative stuff is out there too.

"Both good and bad" -- sounds right! That's human as best I know it, so far. Peter did both good and bad, we can read.

We do indeed presume that people won't stop after coming to Christ, but that's only the first step, and then they continue in their churches, which is exactly what Graham suggested to them.

Graham has a very good sermon about following Christ, in my opinion, which I first saw yesterday (and this is the first full sermon of his I've heard, so I'm starting at a highlight):
Billy Graham: "Are you sure you're a Christian?"

 

[Soyeong]

I would like to share some thoughts about religious attitudes and how we might profane God's name. I am going to use Billy Graham as the example because it is current.

Let me start with a quick but important lesson in Hebrew. In the Hebrew language, the word for name is shem. Shem refers to what we call somebody... but more than that, it deals with the name bearer's character, reputation, and authority. When it comes to a biblical phrase like “walking in the name of God,” it isn't referring to His appellation (what we call Him), it is talking about us walking in a manner that is consistent with His character, that adds to His reputation, and that is within the scope of His will and authority. To profane God's name is literally the opposite. When we walk in a manner that is in contrast to His character, or we take from His reputation, or we walk outside of His will and authority... then we are profaning His shem, we are profaning His name.

So, Billy Graham died and the internet is swarming with posts about Billy, both positive and negative. Personally, I have no opinion... I didn't follow Billy Graham and I will leave it at that. Many of the negative comments, however, have caught my attention, especially by those who claim to follow God's commandments. So I would like to make a point, and to do so, I will assume only for the sake of this point, that Billy was really a sinner.

The first thing we would do is go and talk to him. We would express our concerns and allow him to present his defense, or repent. Assuming he decided to remain in his sin, we might go to him with other leaders, elders... and allow that process to run it's course. And if in the end, he remained unrepentant, he might be rebuked before all so that all might fear and avoid that same mistake.

The problem is, Mr. Graham is dead. He can't be spoken to now, he can't repent or present a defense. He isn't able to be taken before the elders and rebuked... in fact, scripturally speaking, there is no authority here to do ANYTHING because he is dead. There is no protocol for indicting, prosecuting, and convicting the dead, at least, not by man. Even those who think they have the right intent by revealing what they believe was Billy's sins so that others might avoid them... are still convicting him in the process without him present to make a defense. That is still in opposition to scriptural protocol regardless of how they attempt to justify it.

With that in mind, let me bring back the point I made at the beginning of this post about the Hebrew word shem (name). Those who claim to belong to God but who are indeed prosecuting Billy Graham posthumously... are operating outside of God's will. Moreover, they are walking beyond the scope of God's authority and are thus not adding to His reputation. In addition, by no means can we say these people are reflecting the character of God. Thus, these same people I am describing, are profaning the name of God. Ironically, however, they are doing so in some bizarre self-justified way, thinking they are representing His will on the matter. Yet, in a very real way, they are sinning in an attempt to expose their perception of sin. That, my friends, is a religious attitude that does not belong in the body of Christ!

Excellent point. That also fits with the concept of lashon harah or evil speech, where we are not to say things just to lower someone's reputation in the eyes of others.

 

[Ken Rank]

Excellent point. That also fits with the concept of lashon harah or evil speech, where we are not to say things just to lower someone's reputation in the eyes of others.

I was going to include Lashon Hara in my note, but that would have required more explanation and I figured it was long enough already. You're right though, it most certainly falls into that category as well.

 

[Ken Rank]

I have not spoken out on this issue and consider the topic to be more one of a debate on his influence. History can be debated as to what his positive and negative effects were and if you had opinions before yesterday they have not changed today so the news of his death has sparked interest in discussing his ministry. I have seen both good and bad in my study of Graham and I need to hold myself up to the same scrutiny I judge him on so I intend on being pretty gracious. The number of people who can trace their faith to Billy Graham or a friend or parent that came to faith through him is undeniably a massive number. Dan Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

The negative stuff is out there too.

I appreciate your words and tone. Your point, "I need to hold myself up to the same scrutiny I judge him on " is correct, humble, and one we all need to take to heart. That said, my post really isn't about Billy. I am using him only because of how much is being spoken about him currently. My point is really dealing with those who are essentially attacking his character and walk after he has died. Since Scripture does not give us this authority, doing so is profaning God's name and with the world watching US, we need to make sure we never cross that line.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[Kenny'sID]

I'd heard a very few things, but I didn't know there really was any bad to speak of. This is one times where I wish I could follow the ignorance is bliss protocol, but I just can't, and I suppose I'll have to do a bit of research now.

He'd been preaching ever since I was born as I recall, and though I haven't kept up with him closely at all, all I recall is good from him. An absolute icon in my life, all my life.

 

[Ken Rank]

I'd heard a very few things, but I didn't know there really was any bad to speak of. This is one times where I wish I could follow the ignorance is bliss protocol, but I just can't, and I suppose I'll have to do a bit of research now.

He'd been preaching ever since I was born as I recall, and though I haven't kept up with him closely at all, all I recall is good from him. An absolute icon in my life, all my life.

Me too... I mean, I am 51 and he was 99 so the math is easy enough. I look at Graham as a first step guy... not one to take a person through a deep discipleship program, but rather, one gifted at sharing the gospel in a manner that might convict one to make a life decision. I am SURE I disagree with him theologically but that really wasn't my point anyway. My point is simply there are some who see him as a false teacher, in bed with Rome (blah blah blah) and have decided to try and convict him now, without him being able to defend himself. That really isn't a scriptural approach and any time we operate outside of God's authority structure and yet claim to belong to Him... we are profaning His name (really taking it in vain, but that requires more explanation). And we can't do that... Brennan Manning once said, "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians. Who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, and walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable." That literally is taking His name in vain. You claim God to be your God thus you become a representative of Him, the world SHOULD see Him in you. When they don't, you represent Him poorly, not properly reflecting His character, you are taking from His reputation, and even walking outside His authority. That is taking/carry/elevating His name (character, reputation, authority) in a manner that makes it appear worthless (vain).

 

[Kenny'sID]

Me too... I mean, I am 51 and he was 99 so the math is easy enough. I look at Graham as a first step guy... not one to take a person through a deep discipleship program, but rather, one gifted at sharing the gospel in a manner that might convict one to make a life decision. I am SURE I disagree with him theologically but that really wasn't my point anyway. My point is simply there are some who see him as a false teacher, in bed with Rome (blah blah blah) and have decided to try and convict him now, without him being able to defend himself. That really isn't a scriptural approach and any time we operate outside of God's authority structure and yet claim to belong to Him... we are profaning His name (really taking it in vain, but that requires more explanation). And we can't do that... Brennan Manning once said, "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians. Who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, and walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable." That literally is taking His name in vain. You claim God to be your God thus you become a representative of Him, the world SHOULD see Him in you. When they don't, you represent Him poorly, not properly reflecting His character, you are taking from His reputation, and even walking outside His authority. That is taking/carry/elevating His name (character, reputation, authority) in a manner that makes it appear worthless (vain).

I agreed/agree with all you say. He's the man who either gets them into door or at least gets them thinking about it. At least when he first started, as far as I know, he wasn't dirty at all. But as people go, and do what they do, things happen and maybe he even made a few mistakes. But with all that time in the limelight, I'd say he's done pretty darn good in that regard, if not nearly perfect, as I haven't looked into it yet.

But yeah, even if someone is alive and not in the room, I'm reluctant to accuse of certain things so, I'd say, no matter what I find out, or I know about someone, as a general rule, let them alone completely at this stage. Someone who can judge them perfectly has a hold of them now.

I lost a friend here recently to cigarettes, and had to train myself not to even think certain things without him here to defend himself, but I did.

 

[joshua 1 9]

There is no protocol for indicting, prosecuting, and convicting the dead, at least, not by man.

The question is, does his teaching represent God and the Bible. Because his teaching and preaching is still having an influence on the Church today. What We Believe

 

[R. Hartono]

This video has nothing to do with BG's death whatsoever,
neither do i comment anything about BG.

Just asking is this Biblical

 

[Ken Rank]

The question is, does his teaching represent God and the Bible. Because his teaching and preaching is still having an influence on the Church today. What We Believe

Look, I would say yes. But, I also say that knowing I don't agree with some of his doctrines. I am more messianic in my approach? But... BG was a first step preacher... somebody who was gifted at showing others where the door was that they needed to walk through. So I believe he was used by God for that purpose.

That said, that still isn't my point. I have seen some messianic/Hebrew rooted types blasting him because they saw him as being against God's law. And I have seen dogmatic fundamentalists who think BG was in bed with Rome. We can't bring charges against a man who isn't here to answer them so this is truly in God's hand, whatever the truth is.

 

[Dkh587]

With all due respect, Billy Graham was a false teacher who taught a false Messiah and a false gospel. Do your research and you will quickly learn that he was teaching a different Messiah and different gospel than what is written about in the New Testament.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Look, I would say yes. But, I also say that knowing I don't agree with some of his doctrines. I am more messianic in my approach? But... BG was a first step preacher... somebody who was gifted at showing others where the door was that they needed to walk through. So I believe he was used by God for that purpose.

That said, that still isn't my point. I have seen some messianic/Hebrew rooted types blasting him because they saw him as being against God's law. And I have seen dogmatic fundamentalists who think BG was in bed with Rome. We can't bring charges against a man who isn't here to answer them so this is truly in God's hand, whatever the truth is.

All we can do is go by the statement of faith that he left us. Just like we have a statement of faith here on this forum. One issue I see is his belief that we are rotten no good sinners. There is new trend that we partake in the suffering of Christ not for our personal sin but because we are here to work with Christ to redeem a world that is in a fallen condition. Peter and Paul both teach this: 1Peter4:13 "But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed." Romans 8:18 "I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us".

 

[joshua 1 9]

With all due respect, Billy Graham was a false teacher who taught a false Messiah and a false gospel. Do your research and you will quickly learn that he was teaching a different Messiah and different gospel than what is written about in the New Testament.

What was he teaching that you object to?

 

[joshua 1 9]

This video has nothing to do with BG's death whatsoever,
neither do i comment anything about BG.

Just asking is this Biblical

You can interpret this either way. The best thing to do is look at his statement of faith to see what he believed.

 

[RDKirk]

This video has nothing to do with BG's death whatsoever,
neither do i comment anything about BG.

Just asking is this Biblical

In that statement, Graham is referring to the concept of Inclusivism. Inclusivists hold that the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ, but that it is also possible to be justified in Christ without explicit or complete knowledge of who He is.

It's by Inclusivism that any of the OT saints--particularly Job--are saved. Job is essentially the "poster child" of Inclusivism. It's by Inclusivism that Paul asserts to the Greeks that those who worshiped the Unknown God were, in fact, worshiping the true God--and that God intended that they should. It is also by inclusivision that Paul condemns those who refused to acknowledge the proof of God's existence shown by creation.

Inclusivism also answers more perfectly the question of "What if there is someone who has been enabled to believe in Jesus, but no evangelist reaches him with the gospel?"

Some Inclusivists include:

Justin Martyr, 103–165 (only one generation from Christ)
Clement of Alexandria, 150-215 (one generation from the Apostles)
Origen, 185–254
Erasmus, 1466 – 1536
Ulrich Zwingli, 1484-1531
Martin Luther, 1483 – 1546
John Wesley, 1703-1791
C.S. Lewis, 1898-1963

 

[R. Hartono]

Inclusivists hold that the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ, but that it is also possible to be justified in Christ without knowledge of who He is

If thats so then its no use for the Church to spread Gospel for 2000 years if without knowledge of who Jesus is people can be saved.