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The overuse of 'fascism' by the Left is a dangerous game

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Stephen3141

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Trump has use phrases that Adolph Hitler and Mussolini used.
Trump has used language that the eugenics movement, and the Arian
supremicists have historically used.
Trump has promised to become a dictator on day one.
Trump has expressed admiration for Putin and Xi.

There is a lot of historic substance behind calling Trump a fascist.
 
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stevevw

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In the well-known Aesop’s Fable of yesteryear, a young boy repeatedly tricks his village into thinking a wolf is attacking his flock, only to laugh as they come running. When the wolf actually does appear, his cries are met with indifference and disaster ensues.

Today, we’re witnessing a political parallel, with the incessant cries of “fascism” coming from the Left and their echo chambers in the mainstream media.
Except this time there was really no wolves and the boy was actually creating a diversion for the real wolves to come in the back door namely the Woke academic ideologues taking the institutions in their own attempt to take control.

So our intuition not to trust the boy who cried wolf was correct. In fact it wasn't even intuition but plain common sense. The actual reality, the evidence was there for everyone to see, there was no wolves coming, it was all lies.
For more than eight years, this has been the go-to epithet for anyone to the right of center on the political stage in America. This is not because any recent candidates actually exhibit any of the traits of fascist leaders but because some of them have challenged the status quo with an unorthodox style and conservative policies.
Actually I think the reason why the Dems are now explicitly using language and narratives that the Right are like Hitler and facists is just the extreme fundemental belief they have as a party. The Dems have a long history of calling Replicans names like Facists. Regan was viewed the same. So it doesn't matter if the candidate is being more Right than usual. They see any leader from the Right as having Facist tendencies.

Its just that due to politics becoming more personal, more about identity this basic ideology is coming out in the extreme. The Left are a Party of socialism, anti capitalism and elitist ruling class. Which has now become cultural class. So the Right are always the oppressors of the socialist utopia.
But herein lies the rub: By branding everything from tax cuts to immigration enforcement as fascism, the term has been stripped of its historical gravitas, becoming nothing more than a rhetorical cudgel.

Continued below.
Yes I think for the Left it becomes a meaningless word. But that is what they have done with language full stop. They have taken words hostage and redefined or cancelled them. A women is now redefined and any objective reality we had to determine this has been taken away. By redefining words to the irrational ideology the Left are redefining reality and themselves.

They are forever having to redefine and recreate words and narratives because the previous redefinitions are exposed and after a while they lose any rational basis for what they are talking about.

That is why it was so important to get some clarity and rationality back into the conversation. Look at the facts and reality and allow that to be the determination and not peoples words.
 
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actionsub

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The Left are a Party of socialism
I would argue that "socialism" has been overused by the Right every bit as much as "fascism" by the Left. Many of these political terms are far more nuanced in actual meaning than their current usage in political discourse.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Trump has use phrases that Adolph Hitler and Mussolini used.
Trump has used language that the eugenics movement, and the Arian
supremicists have historically used.
Trump has promised to become a dictator on day one.
Trump has expressed admiration for Putin and Xi.

There is a lot of historic substance behind calling Trump a fascist.
Do you believe the necessity to then stop Trump with any means possible? If Trump is a literal Hitler, should an operation valkyrie be planned?
 
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stevevw

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I would argue that "socialism" has been overused by the Right every bit as much as "fascism" by the Left. Many of these political terms are far more nuanced in actual meaning than their current usage in political discourse.
I don't mean socialism as in Marxism or communism. I mean socialism as in the Left or Labor in my country were always for the working class and national health programs. That was a good thing. It wasn't a forced ideology like Marxism. It was a political philosophy and platform in which they were standing up for the workers and needy.

I think even Conservatives but more so moderates supported ideas like that. I use to think ok we have had a term or two of the Right improving the economy and now we need a term or two of the Left looking after the welfare side. As time went on each side took on a bit more of each others ideas.

But the fundemental idea of social welfare is really a Christian thing and we should have more of it. Unfortunately politics is no longer about those core and universal ideas but has become all about identity. Both sides are becoming all about power rather than the people.

But I wonder if that is an inherent problem with the system of doing things in a secular State. Maybe democracy is eating itself.
 
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stevevw

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Trump has use phrases that Adolph Hitler and Mussolini used.
Trump has used language that the eugenics movement, and the Arian
supremicists have historically used.
Trump has promised to become a dictator on day one.
Trump has expressed admiration for Putin and Xi.

There is a lot of historic substance behind calling Trump a fascist.
Once again the idea the Left push is that 'Words and Narratives create reality'. They take peoples words and create false representations ignoring reality in an attempt to recreate reality.

We have an objective reality to measure whether Trump is a Hitler Type dictator from the last time he was president and the nation never became a totalitarian nation. In fact it did well and there was no wars during Trumps term.

All this talk about facists and Hitler is divisive and does not correspond with reality. Its the same ideological over reach that we have seen with other language like a 'Women' being redefined and biological reality being ignored. The same ideology that says all whites are racist and males as toxic.

But an even bigger reality is that the majority including minorities who increased their support for Trump did not believe Trump is a Facist. Thats the biggest reality that Leftists are not acknowledging but rather are doubling down on.

Oh sorry there is one more big unreality that the Left are engaging in that everyone knows except them. That is allowing an incompetent president, the most powerful position in the free world to continue like there is no problem.

Perhaps the majority see things the other way around. While the Left was busy telling everyone Trump and his supporters were Facist Hitlers they were themselves acting like dictators by gaslighting and using lawfare and State control to manipulate information, deny freedoms and democracy.

I think basically that is the biggest unreality most people rejected and the Left were blind sided. Just like they were when Biden was exposed.
 
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RDKirk

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What's funny is if you define left or right as "more government control" vs "less government control" fascism is very much a left wing ideology. Now, "right" in US politics has come to be rather meaningless since former democrats invaded the republican party starting with Nixon's southern strategy.
There were two periods of "Southern Strategy" for the GOP. The first was in the early 60s when what was then a very libertarian GOP joined forces with Dixiecrats to fight the third Civil Rights Act.

It was the second "Southern Strategy" of Nixon in which the GOP further encouraged Dixiecrat religionists to ally with the GOP. It should be noted that the leader of the GOP in the early 60s, Barry Goldwater, had explicitly warned the GOP not to make that second alliance with Dixiecrat religionists.

Let's not forget that during the Clinton era Trump was a "blue dog" democrat and hasn't by any means shown allegiance to truly conservative policies. But as the article states, fascism has also become an ill-defined catch all for "policy/politician I don't like."

For sure, "fascism" has become a catch all for "policy/politician I don't like" for Liberals to the same extent that "Marxist" has become a catch all for the Right for "policy/politician I don't like."

But it's dangerous, I have discovered, to dismiss both positions, because at this point: Both have become true.
 
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RDKirk

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I would say that a candidate who does not accept election results and instead undermines their integrity is exhibiting (strongly) the traits of a fascist leader.
Spoken as though Marxist regimes typically come to power at the ballot box.
 
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RDKirk

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Donald Trump's foreign policy was putting America first. Instead of bowing before the agendas of the globalists elites, Trump put America first and that made him the first decent leader for America since Ronald Reagan in my opinion. The vast majority of American military voted for Trump in 2016, 2020, and also in 2024. The American military Servicemembers don't want a President who is getting us involved in senseless foreign wars.
Trump did return the salute of a North Korean general.

 
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RDKirk

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Yeah, though as I said it's not really a useful metric specifically because it clumps political positions that have no true affinity for each other together. Fascism and classical liberalism are not anywhere near each other politically, but in the US both would be considered right wing.
That's why I prefer a two-axis political matrix rather than the common political spectrum. In particular, I prefer the Pournelle Two-Axis matrix because I agree with Pournelle that it compares the two components most significant to American polity: 1. Attitude toward government control and 2. Attitude toward social planning.

Pournelle_chart_color.gif


By this chart (which was first published in 1963), we see basic American liberals and conservatives actually quite close in position..both slightly "statist" and differing--but only slightly--in the attitude toward social planning. Of note, the far extremes in their separate trends do lead to Communism in the case of American liberals and Nazism in the case of American conservatives.

It should also be noted that the inclusion of Southern religionist conservatives into the GOP actually moved that party from the upper left quadrant to the lower right quadrant.
 
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RDKirk

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Trump has use phrases that Adolph Hitler and Mussolini used.
Trump has used language that the eugenics movement, and the Arian
supremicists have historically used.
Trump has promised to become a dictator on day one.
Trump has expressed admiration for Putin and Xi.

There is a lot of historic substance behind calling Trump a fascist.
And Harris has frequently quoted Marx. Further, as I've mentioned several times, the Critical Theory openly espoused by the Democratic Party and embedded in their current ideology is self-acknowledged as Marxist.
 
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RDKirk

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I would argue that "socialism" has been overused by the Right every bit as much as "fascism" by the Left. Many of these political terms are far more nuanced in actual meaning than their current usage in political discourse.
They aren't really more nuanced, but they are more specific.
 
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Vambram

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Trump did return the salute of a North Korean general.
IMO, not that big of a deal. I would have preferred that Trump didn't do that. But, that really ain't nothing to worry about.
 
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FreeinChrist

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ADVISOR HAT


This thread is being closed. The following announcement was updated:



Note that it now includes:

Do not call either political party in the US or members thereof Fascist, or Socialist*, or Marxist or Communist. Do not call the leaders Hitler.

 
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