The other Commandments

[biggles53]

Foreigners who were enemies of God and Israel and captured in battle were not neighbors.

Ummm.....that's kinda the point...

DogmaHunter is right....

 

[orangeness365]

Better Ten Commandments:

1) Do not deceive without just cause.
2) Do not murder.
3) In all things desire justice.
4) Do not bring unnecessary suffering to conscious creatures.
5) Care for those in need.
6) Search for the truth.
7) Do not desire to kill, injure, or maim living, breathing creatures.
8) Do not own, possess, or control another human.
9) Do not lust after the possessions of others.
10) Maintain responsible relationships. Do not reproduce unless you are willing to care greatly for your offspring.

Do not covet is one of the ten commandments, and it means the same thing as don't lust after the possessions of others.

 

[Oafman]

Do not covet is one of the ten commandments, and it means the same thing as don't lust after the possessions of others.

That one would be fine if it did not describe women as a possession.

 

[godenver1]

That's a couple of mentions of the Golden Rule, which I agree is a very good foundation for any value system. Which is why it formed the basis for ethics in ancient civilizations across the world.

The problem for Bible scholars, is that they can point to quite a few OT orders from God which are in direct contravention of the Golden Rule.

I'm not sure what orders you are specifically referring to (so I'll assume it is rape/slavery, please correct me if I'm wrong)

This is a response in a 'peanut gallery' thread about the debate on Yahweh 'commanding' male rapists to purchase their victims. It was written by GratiaCorpusChristi and I believe takes in the historical aspects of OT Torah law. (Ignore the pronoun 'you' as in this case he wasn't referring to you, Oafman)

You can't exactly legislate a job market into existence wherein an independent woman could find gainful employment. In that time a woman needed a male provider because trade skills were passed down from father to son with no educational provisions for women, because there were no public schools. And even if she acquired such skills (which she surely could have, being that women and men are truly equal in ways ancient societies did not fully recognize), what person would hire her, a woman?

...

You simply have unrealistic expectations about what law can and cannot accomplish in society. Law doesn't impose ideal situations upon society; it regulates society as it exists, within the social structures and markets that exist. Attempts to reconstruct societies through legislation are not necessarily doomed to failure, but in an ancient society without the provisions and resources of the modern industrial state, they almost certainly are.

And of course, that's what we need to recognize about the Torah: it is a law code for an ancient society that humanized the legal code within its ancient context. It is not, and can never be, an ethical code for all time.

Peanut Gallery - Does Yahweh Command Male Rapists to Purchase Their Voicelsss...
http://www.christianforums.com/t7831758-4/#post65992293

 

[bhsmte]

Do not covet is one of the ten commandments, and it means the same thing as don't lust after the possessions of others.

But, coveting other peoples goods, keeps the economy going.

 

[essentialsaltes]

"You simply have unrealistic expectations about what law can and cannot accomplish in society."

I think we have realistic expectations of what the commands of a morally perfect and unchanging deity would look like.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think it's pretty obvious that most of the world already makes up their own commandments.

 

[BL2KTN]

This is a response in a 'peanut gallery' thread about the debate on Yahweh 'commanding' male rapists to purchase their victims. It was written by GratiaCorpusChristi and I believe takes in the historical aspects of OT Torah law. (Ignore the pronoun 'you' as in this case he wasn't referring to you, Oafman)

I was unable to participate in the peanut gallery at that time. However, here is a quote from the official debate which I think repudiates GCC's excuse for the OT's laws:

"In this debate I have shown that women in the bible are viewed as property (with a value of fifty shekels of silver no less), that they are considered plunder like cows and oxen (Numbers 31:32-35), and that Moses ordered the mass-rape of 32,000 young girls without a peep of judgment from Yahweh. I have done so to demonstrate what kind of worldview must exist in order for a commandment such as the topic of this thread to exist. When you can sell your daughter into slavery with rules by the creator of the cosmos telling you how (Exodus 21:7), when you beat a woman to death with rocks if she doesn't bleed during sex (Deuteronomy 22:16-21), and when you kill a woman if she doesn't scream loudly enough while being raped (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)... well, when you have that barbaric of a view of women, that's how you get commandments telling you to force rapists to marry their victims."

 

[Oafman]

I'm not sure what orders you are specifically referring to (so I'll assume it is rape/slavery, please correct me if I'm wrong)

This is a response in a 'peanut gallery' thread about the debate on Yahweh 'commanding' male rapists to purchase their victims. It was written by GratiaCorpusChristi and I believe takes in the historical aspects of OT Torah law. (Ignore the pronoun 'you' as in this case he wasn't referring to you, Oafman)



Peanut Gallery - Does Yahweh Command Male Rapists to Purchase Their Voicelsss...
http://www.christianforums.com/t7831758-4/#post65992293

Yes, rape and slavery. And genocide.

In terms of the genocide and slavery, GratiaCorpusChrsiti's post offers nothing.

It attempts to justify the purchasing and enforced marriage of rape victims by stating that life would have been tough, or even impossible, for women who are no longer 'intact'. So, why not command society to help such women? Why not command them to educate and empower such women? Why not suggest a rule which punishes the rapist for his crime, to a much greater extent than them having to pay some cash, and which does not reward them with subsequent 'possession' of the victim? The post you provided is a very unconvincing defence of this directive.

 

[BL2KTN]

It attempts to justify the purchasing and enforced marriage of rape victims by stating that life would have been tough, or even impossible, for women who are no longer 'intact'. So, why not command society to help such women? Why not command them to educate and empower such women? Why not suggest a rule which punishes the rapist for his crime, to a much greater extent than them having to pay some cash, and which does not reward them with subsequent 'possession' of the victim? The post you provided is a very unconvincing defence of this directive.

In other news, women from that time period were likely careful not to dance, do gymnastics, ride horses, ride bicycles, or have pelvic exams... lest a highly variable, tiny flap of skin not look like an old man wanted. The price was death by having rocks hurled at you.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I'll start the ball rolling with a couple of obvious ones:

11) Thou shall not rape
12) Never take another human being as a slave

11) Covered by the Sixth Commandment, and often the Seventh as well.
12) That one isn't obvious at all.

 

[Belk]

I think it's pretty obvious that most of the world already makes up their own commandments.

Agreed.

 

[Oafman]

11) Covered by the Sixth Commandment, and often the Seventh as well.

Murder and adultery are quite different things from rape.

12) That one isn't obvious at all.

Yes it is!

 

[Aldebaran]

But, coveting other peoples goods, keeps the economy going.

Coveting is what you do before you decide to steal from another person. That's what keeps our police employed.

Coveting means you see something someone else has, decide that you should have it instead of them, and then are led to take it from them. If you see something of someone else's, then decide to go out and buy that same type of item, then you're copying, not coveting.

 

[Belk]

Coveting is what you do before you decide to steal from another person. That's what keeps our police employed.

Coveting means you see something someone else has, decide that you should have it instead of them, and then are led to take it from them. If you see something of someone else's, then decide to go out and buy that same type of item, then you're copying, not coveting.

No, that is not correct.

Covet - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[Paradoxum]

1) Don't torture
2) Don't rape
3) Don't abuse children
4) No genocide

 

[GoldenBoy89]

1) Don't torture
2) Don't rape
3) Don't abuse children
4) No genocide

Amazing that an all-knowing God wouldn't think to include those simple rules...

 

[Golden Yak]

'Thou shalt really try and get along with one another, come on people.'

But, coveting other peoples goods, keeps the economy going.

Yes, there should be a distinction between wanting your neighbors actual specific belongings and wanting the same belongings as your neighbor - you're free to desire things of your own and work towards acquiring them, but you are not to take things that belong to other people.

 

[Angelquill]

Actually, there were laws about rape.

Now, me, if I could add just one verse to the Bible, it wouldn't be a commandment.
It would be a beatitude...you know...one of Jesus' "blessed art thous"

It would be,

"Blessed is he who can laugh at himself, for he shall always be smiling."

 

[Euler]

Actually, there were laws about rape.

Now, me, if I could add just one verse to the Bible, it wouldn't be a commandment.
It would be a beatitude...you know...one of Jesus' "blessed art thous"

It would be,

"Blessed is he who can laugh at himself, for he shall always be smiling."

Unfortunately, most of the rape laws were in favor of it!