The origins of atheism

JonFromMinnesota · Sep 24, 2015

jenny1972 said:
we cant post links here just go to google and type in the words 'confirmed miracle'

You can post links. I want you to refer to one so I know exactly what your definition of a miracle is. If you are referring to people recovering from terminal illnesses, then I have to ask you why doesn't this happen to everyone who prays? Does your God just pick and choose who lives and dies? Why are amputees never healed? Why even allow the terminal illness to occur in the first place?

DZoolander · Sep 24, 2015

aus22 said:
The Problem with saying GOd never spoke to you is that you are in a minority. Are you saying that the millions in claim that God spoke to them are lying or delusional . To practice any religion you must believe God spoke to you in some way.

6.5 Billion People in the world.

One million = 1/1000th of a billion.
One million = 1/6500th of the world population.

Let's say there's "millions" - heck - let's say 20 million.

20 million = 20/6500th of the world's population...or...put into percentages... 0.003%.

That's hardly a majority.

AV1611VET · Sep 24, 2015

JonFromMinnesota said:
Link one miracle that has been confirmed.

The return of Israel to their Promised Land.

jenny1972 · Sep 24, 2015

JonFromMinnesota said:
You can post links. I want you to refer to one so I know exactly what your definition of a miracle is. If you are referring to people recovering from terminal illnesses, then I have to ask you why doesn't this happen to everyone who prays? Does your God just pick and choose who lives and dies? Why are amputees never healed? Why even allow the terminal illness to occur in the first place?

ok i didnt know we could here ---> http://listverse.com/2008/07/14/top-10-astonishing-miracles/

JonFromMinnesota · Sep 24, 2015

jenny1972 said:
ok i didnt know we could here ---> http://listverse.com/2008/07/14/top-10-astonishing-miracles/

I only have to look at #1 on that list to not take any of that as truth. Just have to again ask the question, what is more likely, the laws of nature being suspended in your favor and in a way you approve or you are under a misapprehension.

If they're talking about this: "The sun was then reported to have careened towards the earth in a zigzag pattern" this would be reported throughout the world.....also this is impossible because if the sun did that, the Earth would be ejected from it's orbit.

JonFromMinnesota · Sep 24, 2015

AV1611VET said:
The return of Israel to their Promised Land.

Are you referring to the exodus out of Egypt? Sorry, that never happened.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus

jenny1972 · Sep 24, 2015

JonFromMinnesota said:
I only have to look at #1 on that list to not take any of that as truth.

yep a typical openminded athiest LOL

jenny1972 · Sep 24, 2015

JonFromMinnesota said:
what is more likely, the laws of nature being suspended in your favor and in a way you approve or you are under a misapprehension.
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well since the laws of nature are suspended sometimes and humans cannot give a good explanation through logical science why it happened why is attributing it to God unreasonable just because you yourself dont believe in God does not mean that God does not exist right?, and if the laws of nature being suspended was a result of misapprehension then wouldnt the event happen over and over and over again instead of just once?

JonFromMinnesota · Sep 24, 2015

jenny1972 said:
well since the laws of nature are suspended sometimes

Name one.

jenny1972 said:
humans cannot give a good explanation through logical science why it happened why is attributing it to God unreasonable

Because it's an argument from incredulity. "I cannot understand why this happened, therefore it was God" It's a logical fallacy. People used to think lightning was the cause of a God, people thought disease was God's punishment. We know now this is not the case. If you attribute everything you don't know to God, then you'll never learn anything.

Foxhole87 · Sep 24, 2015

jenny1972 said:
yep a typical openminded athiest LOL

Bad arguments are universally bad.

jenny1972 · Sep 24, 2015

JonFromMinnesota said:
Because it's an argument from incredulity. "I cannot understand why this happened, therefore it was God" It's a logical fallacy. People used to think lightning was the cause of a God, people thought disease was God's punishment. We know now this is not the case. If you attribute everything you don't know to God, then you'll never learn anything.

even the mysteries of nature that science can explain doesnt prove that God did not create all of it , as far as theories about the beginning of the universe since none of the theorists were actually there how can they prove their theory is true . No scientist can prove that God isnt real or didnt create everything . I have my personal proof that God exists and its very convincing how do you know that God will not someday convince you and prove His existence to you like so many others?

Chriliman · Sep 24, 2015

EZoolander said:
6.5 Billion People in the world.

One million = 1/1000th of a billion.
One million = 1/6500th of the world population.

Let's say there's "millions" - heck - let's say 20 million.

20 million = 20/6500th of the world's population...or...put into percentages... 0.003%.

That's hardly a majority.

Interesting...let me ask you, how small of a percentage of chance is it that this universe exists in the way that it does? If we consider the multiverse it would seem our existence is an infinitely small probability. However, inside the universe, our existence is 100% probable because it's true that we exist in this universe. What does this tell you about relying on percentages for truth? I think it should tell you that percentages can tell us nothing about what is actually true in regards to how or why this universe exists.

So the fact that only .003%(roughly) of the world's population believes in the Christian God should tell you nothing about the reality of this God existing.

If anything it should tell you to look at these scriptures a little closer:

Matthew 7:13
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

Matthew 22:14
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

AV1611VET · Sep 24, 2015

JonFromMinnesota said:
Are you referring to the exodus out of Egypt?

Wow.

Just wow.

AV1611VET · Sep 24, 2015

jenny1972 said:
yep a typical openminded athiest LOL

Most atheists will believe anything that can be demonstrated over and over.

So should the Antichrist pull a rabbit out of a hat, they'll probably line up to take his Mark.

Christians,* on the other hand, won't even attend the demonstration.

* Tribulation saints.

jenny1972 · Sep 24, 2015

ecco said:
I have also wondered why very intelligent people could believe in such things. I know many religious people. What I have found is that religion is indoctrinated into the minds of children before they learn to walk or talk. It is like learning your native language. Once embedded, it's hard to overcome.

the reason why i believe is not because of indoctrination i was raised by athiests God was a non issue and as an adult i did not go to church so i was not indoctrinated as a child or as an adult to believe in God later in life as an adult God proved His existence to me and that is the only reason why i believe without such proof i would not believe .

JonFromMinnesota · Sep 24, 2015

jenny1972 said:
even the mysteries of nature that science can explain doesnt prove that God did not create all of it

If science can explain it, it's not a mystery. Is there any reason to think a God did it? It's possible, but I don't see any evidence that suggests that a God did. Science doesn't try to prove or disprove God anyway.

jenny1972 said:
as far as theories about the beginning of the universe since none of the theorists were actually there how can they prove their theory is true .

If you're talking about the big bang, predictions and experiments can give credibility to a theory. A prediction made in the 1950's that if the big bang happened, we could hear cosmic microwave background radiation. It was discovered on accident in 1965 but it confirmed the prediction.

If you're talking about before the big bang, we don't know the answer to that question. I am satisfied with "I don't know" until the answer is found. Pretending to know isn't satisfactory to me.

jenny1972 said:
No scientist can prove that God isnt real or didnt create everything

It doesn't try to. The burden of proof is on the ones making a positive claim anyway.

jenny1972 said:
have my personal proof that God exists and its very convincing how do you know that God will not someday convince you and prove His existence to you like so many others?

Surely an omnipotent, omniscient God has a more efficient way of proving his existence than through experiences of a select amount of people knowing full well that proof will not be acceptable to others.

JonFromMinnesota · Sep 24, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Most atheists will believe anything that can be demonstrated over and over.

More of an understanding than a belief. If the bible said that 2+2=5 , you would accept that as truth even if it is demonstrated to you over and over that 2+2=4.

If you can test something over and over and demonstrate it to be true, why would you not accept it?

AV1611VET said:
So should the Antichrist pull a rabbit out of a hat, they'll probably line up to take his Mark.

Christians,* on the other hand, won't even attend the demonstration.

The book of Revelations is blatantly obvious to be allegory.

"....it's nothing more than a bizarre pastoral letter that was addressed to seven specific churches in Asia at the end of the first century by someone (maybe John or maybe not) who appears to have been far from well when he wrote it. In any case, the letter was not intended for use outside of its liturgical context, not to mention that it reads like Jesus on acid."

-Frank Schaeffer "Patience with God"

quatona · Sep 24, 2015

Chriliman said:
Interesting...let me ask you, how small of a percentage of chance is it that this universe exists in the way that it does?

The same percentage as it would exist in the way it would exist if it were different.
If you want to evaluate chances, lotteries can give you a clue.

jenny1972 · Sep 24, 2015

JonFromMinnesota said:
A prediction made in the 1950's that if the big bang happened, we could hear cosmic microwave background radiation. It was discovered on accident in 1965 but it confirmed the prediction.

just because a noise was heard and it was attributed to the big bang doesnt make it true its a theory that the noise was a cosmic microwave background radiation and a leftover from the big bang a theory isnt proof the noise could have been from something else .

jenny1972 · Sep 24, 2015

JonFromMinnesota said:
It doesn't try to. The burden of proof is on the ones making a positive claim anyway.

no the burden of proof is on God not us its not my job to convince you of anything and i know i cant thats why i say debating with an athiest is completely useless and futile . but i enjoy debate so all debates i find interesting but as far as being productive in convincing anyone on either side the possibility of convincing someone exists by words alone is zero .

The origins of atheism

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