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The original sin

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LightOfEyes

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Why Muhammad Didn't Die for Muslims' Sins


Though he is a mercy to all, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) did not die for Muslims' sins. It is to be made clear that the entire concept of someone dying for our sins is in utter contradiction with the Islamic view of the nature of man and God. In Islam, every individual is responsible for his/her own salvation. Everyone, male or female, can directly approach God without any intermediary of a prophet, saint or priest.

"In order for us to be able to understand the Islamic position regarding this issue, it is important to be clear about certain points.

First, Islam, unlike Christianity, does not teach a concept of “original sin”. Adam’s sin was his and his alone; and, according to the Qur’an (for the Qur’anic narration of the story of Adam and Eve, see: the Qur’an: 2: 30-39; 7; 19; 17: 61; 18: 50; 20: 116-17, etc.), God forgave both Adam and Eve when they turned to God in repentance; accordingly they were once again restored to divine mercy. Hence there is no concept of Adam passing on to his progeny an original sin, and therefore no need for stipulating a redeemer for such sins.

Second, as there is no original sin, every one is born into a state of fitrah, a state of natural innocence; sin is acquired later by our own conscious and willful actions. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Every child is born into a state of fitrah or natural state of innocence.”

Third, Islam teaches that God is All-Compassionate and All-Merciful; He is not bound by the rule of a blood sacrifice in order to forgive His servants. To assume that God can forgive only by accepting a blood sacrifice and therefore to state that Jesus or Muhammad died for our sins is not acceptable in Islam. Allah says: “O My servants who have wronged against their souls! Do not despair of Allah’s mercy! For Allah forgives all sins; for He is indeed Forgiving, Compassionate. Turn to your Lord repentant, and submit to Him before the torment overtakes you when you shall not be helped.” (Az-Zumar: 53-54)

Fourth, Islam teaches that every individual is responsible for his/her own salvation. Not Abraham, or Moses, or Jesus, or Muhammad can save us; they are only capable of saving themselves through God’s grace. In the words of the Qur’an: “Whoever commits a sin commits it only against himself. Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (An-Nisa': 111); “Allah does not charge a soul with more than it can bear. It shall be requited for whatever good and whatever it has done.” (Al-Baqarah: 286); “Each soul earns only on its own account, nor does any laden (soul) bear another’s load.” (Al-An`am: 164) “He who is rightly guided, it is for himself; and he who goes astray, it is to his own detriment. No soul can bear another’s burden.” (Al-Isra': 15)

Fifth, everyone, male or female, can directly approach God without any intermediary of a prophet, saint or priest. God is closer to us than our own jugular veins. Almighty Allah says in the Qur’an: “We created man, and We know the promptings of his soul, and We are nearer to him than his own jugular vein.” (Qaf: 16) “When My servants ask you about Me, tell them I am nigh, ready to answer the prayer of the suppliant when he/she prays to Me; therefore let them respond to Me and believe in Me, that they may be rightly guided.” (Al-Baqarah: 186)
So the entire concept of someone dying for our sins is inimical to the Islamic world-view or understanding of the natures of man and God. Islam beckons us all to respond to God’s message and receive His grace and salvation through faith, good works and leading a responsible moral and ethical life."

Peace be upon you all.:wave:
 

Fares

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Where is the debate issue ?
First, Islam, unlike Christianity, does not teach a concept of “original sin”. Adam’s sin was his and his alone; and, according to the Qur’an (for the Qur’anic narration of the story of Adam and Eve, see: the Qur’an: 2: 30-39; 7; 19; 17: 61; 18: 50; 20: 116-17, etc.), God forgave both Adam and Eve when they turned to God in repentance; accordingly they were once again restored to divine mercy. Hence there is no concept of Adam passing on to his progeny an original sin, and therefore no need for stipulating a redeemer for such sins.
Mohammed again did not understand a story from the Bible obviously .
If God forgave Adam and Eve what the hell are doing here ? They were banished from heaven because of the apple sin .
If God really forgave them we should all be in heaven . Your Qu`ran has a lake of logic .
Third, Islam teaches that God is All-Compassionate and All-Merciful; He is not bound by the rule of a blood sacrifice in order to forgive His servants. To assume that God can forgive only by accepting a blood sacrifice and therefore to state that Jesus or Muhammad died for our sins is not acceptable in Islam. Allah says: “O My servants who have wronged against their souls! Do not despair of Allah’s mercy! For Allah forgives all sins; for He is indeed Forgiving, Compassionate. Turn to your Lord repentant, and submit to Him before the torment overtakes you when you shall not be helped.” (Az-Zumar: 53-54)
Sounds nice . But you have a contradiction here . IF God is so mercifull and forgives us for all our sins, why do you punish thiefs by cutting their hands, aduletry by floging them with hundred stripes or execute when they kill , or kill them when they convert to christianity ?
And Jesus was the last sacrifice .
Fourth, Islam teaches that every individual is responsible for his/her own salvation. Not Abraham, or Moses, or Jesus, or Muhammad can save us; they are only capable of saving themselves through God’s grace. In the words of the Qur’an: “Whoever commits a sin commits it only against himself. Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (An-Nisa': 111); “Allah does not charge a soul with more than it can bear. It shall be requited for whatever good and whatever it has done.” (Al-Baqarah: 286); “Each soul earns only on its own account, nor does any laden (soul) bear another’s load.” (Al-An`am: 164) “He who is rightly guided, it is for himself; and he who goes astray, it is to his own detriment. No soul can bear another’s burden.” (Al-Isra': 15)
Jesus died for the sin of Adam and Eve , desobeying God . Everything else we do we are responsable for it . Mohammed did not bring something new with this verses but as always he rejects Jesus . More proof to satan great work .
Fifth, everyone, male or female, can directly approach God without any intermediary of a prophet, saint or priest. God is closer to us than our own jugular veins. Almighty Allah says in the Qur’an: “We created man, and We know the promptings of his soul, and We are nearer to him than his own jugular vein.” (Qaf: 16) “When My servants ask you about Me, tell them I am nigh, ready to answer the prayer of the suppliant when he/she prays to Me; therefore let them respond to Me and believe in Me, that they may be rightly guided.” (Al-Baqarah: 186)
So the entire concept of someone dying for our sins is inimical to the Islamic world-view or understanding of the natures of man and God. Islam beckons us all to respond to God’s message and receive His grace and salvation through faith, good works and leading a responsible moral and ethical life."
Jesus is God . Approaching Jesus is approaching God .
Priest and saints are not intermediary , they are guides .
 
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LightOfEyes

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Fares said:
If God forgave Adam and Eve what the hell are doing here ? They were banished from heaven because of the apple sin .

.



The hell is for those who disobey God. and associate partner with him.​
Fares said:
Sounds nice . But you have a contradiction here . IF God is so mercifull and forgives us for all our sins, why do you punish thiefs by cutting their hands, aduletry by floging them with hundred stripes or execute when they kill , or kill them when they convert to Christianity ? And Jesus was the last sacrifice .






This something different because the penalty established to save the society from corruption​

Fares said:
Jesus died for the sin of Adam and Eve , desobeying God . Everything else we do we are responsable for it . Mohammed did not bring something new with this verses but as always he rejects Jesus . More proof to satan great work .









Christianity accuses me of being guilty of an alleged sin which I have nothing to do with.. why are we being punished for Adam's sin? After all, he ate the forbidden fruit, we didn't. It's his problem, not ours, especially in
light of Deut. 24:16, which says children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.

and It makes God look so helpless and blood thirsty because He could not forgive Adam & Eve and required the torture humiliation of himself to forgive them ??!! in other words He killed himself to please himself!



Peace.






 
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Fares

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The hell is for those who disobey God. and associate partner with him.
You missed the point or ignore it on purpose .
If God forgave adam and eve why aren't we in heaven and not on earth ?
This something different because the penalty established to save the society from corruption.
ROLF . You see the dumb pathetic solutions in Islam ?
How can this be the true religion . Christianity tries to educate her society by love and understanding the right from wrong . Islam educate her society by putting fear in their hearts . Evil can not be faught by Evil .​

Christianity accuses me of being guilty of an alleged sin which I have nothing to do with.
. why are we being punished for Adam's sin? After all, he ate the forbidden fruit, we didn't. It's his problem, not ours, especially in


light of Deut. 24:16, which says children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.


Christianity does not accuse you of anything, so go drink a Coca Cola and chill .

Islam claims Adam was a prophet . This is one of the things that prouves that Islam is wrong . Adam is not a prophet, I even doubt he even existed, he is a myth a metaphore that God created to simplify the creation of the world and to explain the weakness and power of humans : Free will . Adam and Eve were told not to eat that Apple but Satan tempted them to go ahead and eat one . They had the free will to reject the temptation but no they rejected God instead . Everyday we are faced with the same temptation , to do wrong .
The Adam and Eve metaphore is a summary of the life of each and everyone of us .​

Anyway this is my point of view not of christians .​






 
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LightOfEyes said:
It is to be made clear that the entire concept of someone dying for our sins is in utter contradiction with the Islamic view of the nature of man and God. In Islam, every individual is responsible for his/her own salvation.

Not that I have any interest in Islam, but this is, at least, a more rational view than that found in Christianity.
 
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Electra

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LightOfEyes said:


The hell is for those who disobey God. and associate partner with him.

Why is this though? Is your God jealous at the prospect of you worshiping something else?
Who is He in competition with?

Does God need you to worship him, and if so why, inspite of all that wisdom and knowledge does he need humans, who are not as wise or as intelligent to worship him?

(this is a general question I always had an interest in)
 
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LightOfEyes

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Electra said:
Why is this though? Is your God jealous at the prospect of you worshiping something else?
Who is He in competition with?

Does God need you to worship him, and if so why, inspite of all that wisdom and knowledge does he need humans, who are not as wise or as intelligent to worship him?

(this is a general question I always had an interest in)

Actually Almighty Allah does not need humans he only created humans only to worship him. And since he created everything alone and yet people keep worship another God or associate partners with God. So for God this is not acceptable and he will punish those who ignore him or associate partners with him.


Let us see what God said:


051.056
YUSUFALI: I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
PICKTHAL: I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.
SHAKIR: And I have not created the jinn and the men except that they should serve Me.
051.057
YUSUFALI: No Sustenance do I require of them, nor do I require that they should feed Me.
PICKTHAL: I seek no livelihood from them, nor do I ask that they should feed Me.
SHAKIR: I do not desire from them any sustenance and I do not desire that they should feed Me.
051.058
YUSUFALI: For Allah is He Who gives (all) Sustenance,- Lord of Power,- Steadfast (for ever).
PICKTHAL: Lo! Allah! He it is that giveth livelihood, the Lord of unbreakable might.
SHAKIR: Surely Allah is the Bestower of sustenance, the Lord of Power, the Strong.
051.059
YUSUFALI: For the Wrong-doers, their portion is like unto the portion of their fellows (of earlier generations): then let them not ask Me to hasten (that portion)!
PICKTHAL: And lo! for those who (now) do wrong there is an evil day like unto the evil day (which came for) their likes (of old); so let them not ask Me to hasten on (that day).
SHAKIR: So surely those who are unjust shall have a portion like the portion of their companions, therefore let them not ask Me to hasten on.
051.060
YUSUFALI: Woe, then, to the Unbelievers, on account of that Day of theirs which they have been promised!
PICKTHAL: And woe unto those who disbelieve, from (that) their day which they are promised.
SHAKIR: Therefore woe to those who disbelieve because of their day which they are threatened with.







Peace.
 
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LightOfEyes

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Fares said:
If God forgave adam and eve why aren't we in heaven and not on earth ?

After he punished them by drive them out of heaven, they repented. The thing is Repentance is important in Islam, if man have sins and he repented, god will forgive him all sins.
But may you ask me why God did not bring back them to the heaven after repentance
Actually this is to test their children mean children of Adam and eve, who will be good man and get reward paradise and who is bad to get the hellfire.
Fares said:
How can this be the true religion . Christianity tries to educate her society by love and understanding the right from wrong . Islam educate her society by putting fear in their hearts . Evil can not be faught by Evil .

So give a perfect example for the penalty in Christianity.
I thing the corruptions, crimes, rapes, fornications places, in the west is a perfect example. lol.
Fares said:
Christianity does not accuse you of anything, so go drink a Coca Cola and chill .
Islam claims Adam was a prophet . This is one of the things that prouves that Islam is wrong . Adam is not a prophet, I even doubt he even existed, he is a myth a metaphore that God created to simplify the creation of the world and to explain the weakness and power of humans : Free will . Adam and Eve were told not to eat that Apple but Satan tempted them to go ahead and eat one . They had the free will to reject the temptation but no they rejected God instead . Everyday we are faced with the same temptation , to do wrong .
The Adam and Eve metaphore is a summary of the life of each and everyone of us .

Anyway this is my point of view not of christians .

How you are a Christian and don’t believe that Adam was prophet!!!!
 
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Fares

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How you are a Christian and don’t believe that Adam was prophet!!!!
Adam is not a prophet to the christians .
So give a perfect example for the penalty in Christianity.
I thing the corruptions, crimes, rapes, fornications places, in the west is a perfect example. lol.

If they open a sex club in palestine you will be the first one in, so lets not be hypocrites .
Corruptions is everywhere especially in none-democratic countries , like most Islamic countries .
Rapes ? In iran a teenager got hanged because she killed her rapist . Is this justice ?
No body is saying the west is perfect , but the Islamic world is even worst . And why do you always associate the west to christianity ?
 
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LightOfEyes said:
First, Islam, unlike Christianity, does not teach a concept of “original sin”. Adam’s sin was his and his alone; and, according to the Qur’an (for the Qur’anic narration of the story of Adam and Eve, see: the Qur’an: 2: 30-39; 7; 19; 17: 61; 18: 50; 20: 116-17, etc.), God forgave both Adam and Eve when they turned to God in repentance; accordingly they were once again restored to divine mercy. Hence there is no concept of Adam passing on to his progeny an original sin, and therefore no need for stipulating a redeemer for such sins.

Second, as there is no original sin, every one is born into a state of fitrah, a state of natural innocence; sin is acquired later by our own conscious and willful actions. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Every child is born into a state of fitrah or natural state of innocence.”


Hello,

You may be interested to know that the concept of Original Sin is not an inclusive Christian teaching. It is exclusive to the Latin Western approach. Eastern Christianity: Eastern Orthodoxy, the Copts etc. do not hold to any notion of heritable sin. Adam is not considered reprobate and infants are seen as innocent.
 
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LightOfEyes said:
How you are a Christian and don’t believe that Adam was prophet!!!![/SIZE]

A Prophet Is someone who Prophesises about something
Adam did no such thing.

Infact, the first person to be labled as a prophet is Enoch.

Another mis-reading from Muhammed - he couldn't tell who was actulaly a prophet and who wasn't!
 
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MahaSudarshanChakra

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LightOfEyes said:
Why Muhammad Didn't Die for Muslims' Sins


Though he is a mercy to all, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) did not die for Muslims' sins. It is to be made clear that the entire concept of someone dying for our sins is in utter contradiction with the Islamic view of the nature of man and God. In Islam, every individual is responsible for his/her own salvation. Everyone, male or female, can directly approach God without any intermediary of a prophet, saint or priest.

"In order for us to be able to understand the Islamic position regarding this issue, it is important to be clear about certain points.

First, Islam, unlike Christianity, does not teach a concept of “original sin”. Adam’s sin was his and his alone; and, according to the Qur’an (for the Qur’anic narration of the story of Adam and Eve, see: the Qur’an: 2: 30-39; 7; 19; 17: 61; 18: 50; 20: 116-17, etc.), God forgave both Adam and Eve when they turned to God in repentance; accordingly they were once again restored to divine mercy. Hence there is no concept of Adam passing on to his progeny an original sin, and therefore no need for stipulating a redeemer for such sins.

Second, as there is no original sin, every one is born into a state of fitrah, a state of natural innocence; sin is acquired later by our own conscious and willful actions. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Every child is born into a state of fitrah or natural state of innocence.”

Third, Islam teaches that God is All-Compassionate and All-Merciful; He is not bound by the rule of a blood sacrifice in order to forgive His servants. To assume that God can forgive only by accepting a blood sacrifice and therefore to state that Jesus or Muhammad died for our sins is not acceptable in Islam. Allah says: “O My servants who have wronged against their souls! Do not despair of Allah’s mercy! For Allah forgives all sins; for He is indeed Forgiving, Compassionate. Turn to your Lord repentant, and submit to Him before the torment overtakes you when you shall not be helped.” (Az-Zumar: 53-54)

Fourth, Islam teaches that every individual is responsible for his/her own salvation. Not Abraham, or Moses, or Jesus, or Muhammad can save us; they are only capable of saving themselves through God’s grace. In the words of the Qur’an: “Whoever commits a sin commits it only against himself. Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (An-Nisa': 111); “Allah does not charge a soul with more than it can bear. It shall be requited for whatever good and whatever it has done.” (Al-Baqarah: 286); “Each soul earns only on its own account, nor does any laden (soul) bear another’s load.” (Al-An`am: 164) “He who is rightly guided, it is for himself; and he who goes astray, it is to his own detriment. No soul can bear another’s burden.” (Al-Isra': 15)

Fifth, everyone, male or female, can directly approach God without any intermediary of a prophet, saint or priest. God is closer to us than our own jugular veins. Almighty Allah says in the Qur’an: “We created man, and We know the promptings of his soul, and We are nearer to him than his own jugular vein.” (Qaf: 16) “When My servants ask you about Me, tell them I am nigh, ready to answer the prayer of the suppliant when he/she prays to Me; therefore let them respond to Me and believe in Me, that they may be rightly guided.” (Al-Baqarah: 186)
So the entire concept of someone dying for our sins is inimical to the Islamic world-view or understanding of the natures of man and God. Islam beckons us all to respond to God’s message and receive His grace and salvation through faith, good works and leading a responsible moral and ethical life."

Peace be upon you all.:wave:

I find this much more rational than the normal versions of Christianity. Yet the partner thingy hardly appears reasonable. But for that, the world would have been very peaceful with respect to Islam. Each religion said that its God did not like partners or tolerated anything other his worship and the result has been too much conflict and hatred in the world.
 
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Cabbages

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Fares said:
Corruptions is everywhere especially in none-democratic countries , like most Islamic countries .
Rapes ? In iran a teenager got hanged because she killed her rapist . Is this justice ?
No body is saying the west is perfect , but the Islamic world is even worst . And why do you always associate the west to christianity ?

It would seem you are associating the Middle East with Islam. True, it is heavily Islamic, but not everyone practices Islam. Allah is not hanging young girls, people are; and such a small number of people cannot possibly fairly represent the entire Middle East.
 
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elijah115

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Surah 16:60

60. Behold! We told thee that thy Lord doth encompass mankind
round about: We granted the vision which We showed thee, but as a trial
for men,- as also the Cursed Tree (mentioned) in the Qur'an: We put
terror (and warning) into them, but it only increases their inordinate
transgression


G, I wonder what this verse means?
 
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elijah115

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LightOfEyes said:
I thing the corruptions, crimes, rapes, fornications places, in the west is a perfect example. lol.

Response:


Surah 9:97

97. The Arabs of the desert are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy,
and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command
which Allah hath sent
down to His Messenger. But Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.


Your Quran said it, so it must be true. Or is the Quran lying? Are non-Arabs the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy? I dont know, I could be reading this wrong.


PS. please note i'm being sarcastic in case you didnt get the joke.
 
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Electra

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LightOfEyes said:
Actually Almighty Allah does not need humans he only created humans only to worship him. And since he created everything alone and yet people keep worship another God or associate partners with God. So for God this is not acceptable and he will punish those who ignore him or associate partners with him.


Let us see what God said:


051.056
YUSUFALI: I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
PICKTHAL: I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.
SHAKIR: And I have not created the jinn and the men except that they should serve Me.
051.057
YUSUFALI: No Sustenance do I require of them, nor do I require that they should feed Me.
PICKTHAL: I seek no livelihood from them, nor do I ask that they should feed Me.
SHAKIR: I do not desire from them any sustenance and I do not desire that they should feed Me.
051.058
YUSUFALI: For Allah is He Who gives (all) Sustenance,- Lord of Power,- Steadfast (for ever).
PICKTHAL: Lo! Allah! He it is that giveth livelihood, the Lord of unbreakable might.
SHAKIR: Surely Allah is the Bestower of sustenance, the Lord of Power, the Strong.
051.059
YUSUFALI: For the Wrong-doers, their portion is like unto the portion of their fellows (of earlier generations): then let them not ask Me to hasten (that portion)!
PICKTHAL: And lo! for those who (now) do wrong there is an evil day like unto the evil day (which came for) their likes (of old); so let them not ask Me to hasten on (that day).
SHAKIR: So surely those who are unjust shall have a portion like the portion of their companions, therefore let them not ask Me to hasten on.
051.060
YUSUFALI: Woe, then, to the Unbelievers, on account of that Day of theirs which they have been promised!
PICKTHAL: And woe unto those who disbelieve, from (that) their day which they are promised.
SHAKIR: Therefore woe to those who disbelieve because of their day which they are threatened with.







Peace.

Thanks for your response. But may I ask few more questions on this.

If Allah/God does not need humans to worship him, why has He made their purpose to only worship him?
 
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Theowne said:
This is so ironic.....a few sentences before posting this you used the Middle East cases to represent Islam...and then you said this.....


All but Israel in the Middle East are Islamic to be honest - just look at hte "Maps and facts don't lie" thread.

And seeing as though Fares comes from the Middle east, I think he knows what he's on about.
 
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