The Original Church was Jewish, ruled by Jewish Bishops

[AbbaLove]

Jewish Customs In the Early Church
The question was then asked. So one must ask, why does Christianity still deny her roots?

This phenomenon was possible even evident to Polycarp and other Spirit-filled Bishops that received the baptism of HaShem's Spirit and were possibly mentored by the Apostle John (e.g. Polycarp). All true Christians are Pro-Paul (Jew and non-Jew are One in Christ), and as such are well aware that the "ROOT" gives life to the TREE (true Bride of Christ ~ Parable of the Ten Virgins). It's a matter of a mistaken non-Jewish interpretation of ... "her Christian roots" (RT).

Romans 11:18-20
Do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.​

The first "Bishops" mentioned were (IMO) baptized by Ruach Ha-Kodesh (Hebrew: רוח הקודש, "Holy Spirit" also transliterated Ruacḥ Ha-Godesh). Paul is referring to those non-Jews that had an aire of superiority (RT) as HaShem's Gift to the world.

 

[Dave-W]

Your list missed James as the first. I

And Shimon ben Clopas as the 2nd.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

And Shimon ben Clopas as the 2nd.

The list I posted included all of them BTW, great pic of you and your grandson! Mazel Tov!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What do you mean by"consonant syllables as an expression of the Lord?"
What did this poster say that was wrong?
Slsy, are you a moderator?

I think what was meant is that LORD, Ha Shem or Adonai should be used rather than the Tetragrammaton.

 

[Dave-W]

BTW, great pic of you and your grandson! Mazel Tov!

Thanks!

 

[pinacled]

What do you mean by"consonant syllables as an expression of the Lord?"
What did this poster say that was wrong?
Slsy, are you a moderator?

What do you mean by"consonant syllables as an expres

I think that what was meant is that LORD, Ha Shem or Adonai should be used rather than the Tetragrammaton.

Rachael hasn't found leah ?

If I recall correctly" Leah never uttered a thought of a curse.

Blessings Always

 

[Pavel Mosko]

So one must ask, why does Christianity still deny her roots?

I read this article last week and wanted to respond. This sort of thing is more of a Protestant problem, especially among modern Evangelicalism than one inherent to all of Christianity.


1) The Jewish origins of Christian liturgy are well documented. And many other Christian traditions have their origins in Judaism.
LiturgicaMusic.com


2) A number of the Eastern and Oriental Churches are descended from Jewish believers and have unique church traditions based on that heritage.

E.G.- Ethiopia is said to have converted to Judaism after the queen of Sheba returned back home from visiting King Solomon. The Ethiopian Church has a tradition of not eating the forbidden foods mentioned in the Pentateuch. They also are said to be in possession of the ark of the Covenant in one of their ancient monasteries and have small replicas of it in some of their churches.


I would also recommend reading East of the Euphrates that documents the East Syrian Church history.
East of the Euphrates: Early Christianity in Asia – Religion Online

 

[Laureate]

All of the initial Christians were either Jews by birth or by conversion, and apparently there were no Gentile members for at least the first ten years.

We know that the Apostles were strictly instructed to go unto the Lost Sheep of Îsʰrəél, and it would not be until many who were invited, yet declined to attend the wedding feast that others would be invited.

In his Ecclesiastical History, Eusebius tells us that "the church at Jerusalem, at first formed of the circumcision, came later to be formed of Gentile Christians, and the whole church under them, consisted of faithful Hebrews who continued from the time of the apostles, until the siege of Jerusalem."

During the reign of Hadrian (A.D. 117-138), the Jewish nation was crushed in what came to be called the Second Jewish War. Jerusalem was renamed Aelia Capitolina by the Romans, and Jews were forbidden to enter the city for one hundred years. As these dramatic events were unfolding, many of the Hebrew Christians fled to the mountains of Pella, located in present-day Jordan, in obedience to Christ's instruction found in Matthew 24:16. This left only Gentile believers in control of the Church for the first time, and they quickly appointed a man named Mark as Jerusalem's first non-Jewish pastor.(4) (5)
According to Baring Gould's history, the community of believers in exile, led by James and Simeon, was still clinging tightly to the old traditions while crouched at Pella.(6)

This is very intriguing for me, seeing how I identify the Mt. Burning with Fire being Cast into the sea as the Stone which the Masons rejected, and the Glory in the midst being referred to by the inhabitants of the Rock as Péleʰ (Marvelous).

There was even a tradition that a synagogue service could not commence without ten men present.(14) Jesus may have been referring to this tradition when He said, "Where two or three are gathered in My name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20).

In a Corporation, the word is called a Quorum, where a minimum of members must be present before a meeting can be counted as official.

The rabbi was a prophet

after the manner of the post-exilic prophets of Judaism. He carried the responsibility of reading and preaching the Word and exhorting and edifying the people (1 Corinthians 14:3).

So many have no idea, notwithstanding when one puts the Word of Alôhâyîm in their mouth they are standing in the office of a Prophet, and to miss represent the Word of Alôhâyîm at any length is to make one's self out to be a false Prophet.

The question was then asked.

So one must ask, why does Christianity still deny her roots?

Mostly ignorance, but the real question should be focussed on what prompted the falling away in the first place.

 

[AbbaLove]

Mostly ignorance, but the real question should be focused on what prompted the falling away in the first place.

Would it help if you (or the OP) were to define what one means by "falling away"? For example do you mean "falling away" from a non-Jewish "Christian" male not being circumcised on the 8th day as well as non-Jewish Christian males "falling away" from observing many of the hundreds of other statutes and ordinances of the law after 70 AD ??

Invariably it depends in no small measure on one's religious understanding of Paul's instruction to the "Christians" in Galatia as:

1. Being inspired by the Spirit of HaShem

or instead​

2. Paul's own religious bias (e.g. Galatians 3:1-12 and Galatians 5:1-3)​

Was Paul's letter to the "Christians" at Galatia possibly mistranslated by the "Church" thus leading to an eventual "falling away". Also, is "Judaizer" a derogatory non-Jewish invented "Church" word that contributed to a "falling away" from the law that even Yeshua observed?

 

[Lulav]

We know that the Apostles were strictly instructed to go unto the Lost Sheep of Îsʰrəél, and it would not be until many who were invited, yet declined to attend the wedding feast that others would be invited.

That's a good point, L, I think many Gentiles today miss that and think at Pentecost it was the beginning of their church. But the ekkelesia (which was where the word church came from) started way back, in the wilderness with the children of Israel. The torah was given that day on Mt Sinai and the Torah by Spirit was given on the anniversary in Jerusalem on Mt Zion.

This is very intriguing for me, seeing how I identify the Mt. Burning with Fire being Cast into the sea as the Stone which the Masons rejected, and the Glory in the midst being referred to by the inhabitants of the Rock as Péleʰ (Marvelous).

Not sure I understand that.

In a Corporation, the word is called a Quorum, where a minimum of members must be present before a meeting can be counted as official.

Yes, in Judaism it is called a minyan. Which is ten men to be able to recite certain prayers. You might think that comes from Zech 8:23, interpreted as the ten men coming from the 10 tribes connecting with a Jewish man, but instead it comes from the 10 spies who brought in a bad report when reconnoitering the land.

So many have no idea, notwithstanding when one puts the Word of Alôhâyîm in their mouth they are standing in the office of a Prophet, and to miss represent the Word of Alôhâyîm at any length is to make one's self out to be a false Prophet.

Yes and that certainly includes using G-ds word in part, or twisting it's meaning.

Mostly ignorance, but the real question should be focussed on what prompted the falling away in the first place.

Well that one is easy. I believe the adversary has been working on keeping the Jews from their Messiah for thousands of years. He didn't succeed in stopping Messiah from coming thus keeping his sentence from becoming a reality so instead knowing G-ds word as he does, better than most believers, his Plan B was to make sure that this didn't happen.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
-----------------------------------

In other words, Jerusalem, or the head of Israel where the Sanhedrin sat, needs to recognize Yeshua as the Messiah. This day is fast approaching though. Especially since Rabbi Keturi's letter has been recognized as authentic and the acrostic reveals the name of the Messiah to be Yehoshua.

 

[Dave-W]

We know that the Apostles were strictly instructed to go unto the Lost Sheep of Îsʰrəél, and it would not be until many who were invited, yet declined to attend the wedding feast that others would be invited.

That limitation came off in Acts chapter 1 where the risen Lord instructed them to: "... be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” (verse 8)

 

[Laureate]

That limitation came off in Acts chapter 1 where the risen Lord instructed them to: "... be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” (verse 8)

These were things to be fulfilled, as in, not having yet manifested.

 

[Laureate]

​

Would it help if you (or the OP) were to define what one means by "falling away"? For example do you mean "falling away" from a non-Jewish "Christian" male not being circumcised on the 8th day as well as non-Jewish Christian males "falling away" from observing many of the hundreds of other statutes and ordinances of the law after 70 AD ??

Invariably it depends in no small measure on one's religious understanding of Paul's instruction to the "Christians" in Galatia as:

1. Being inspired by the Spirit of HaShem

or instead​

2. Paul's own religious bias (e.g. Galatians 3:1-12 and Galatians 5:1-3)​

Was Paul's letter to the "Christians" at Galatia possibly mistranslated by the "Church" thus leading to an eventual "falling away". Also, is "Judaizer" a derogatory non-Jewish invented "Church" word that contributed to a "falling away" from the law that even Yeshua observed?

A Falling Away can manifest in various fashions, having a Crown Fading Away is one, such as was with the anointed king Saul, whose falling away was marked with rebellion to the Torah/Word of Alôhâyîm, and a stubborn resistance to the Spirit of Grace, and from thence comes the concept of falling away from the faith, and subsequently the body of believers constituting the Vine.

To fail to Continue in the Word is a means of falling away, that results in stagnation, stillborn offspring, and those who either out grow the stagnation, or fall away from it (for various reasons).

 

[AbbaLove]

To fail to Continue in the Word is a means of falling away, that results in stagnation, stillborn offspring, and those who either out grow the stagnation, or fall away from it (for various reasons).

Some of today's Messianic Jews (just as it also was at the time of Paul) might find Paul's following words offensive in his letter to the Christian congregation at Galatia ...

"What the Messiah has freed us for is freedom! Therefore, stand firm, and don’t let yourselves be tied up again to a yoke of slavery. Mark my words — I, Sha’ul, tell you that if you undergo b’rit-milah (circumcision) the Messiah will be of no advantage to you at all! Again, I warn you: any man who undergoes b’rit-milah (circumcision) is obligated to observe the entire Torah!" (Gal. 5:1-3)​

When you say "fail to Continue in the Word" are you also including Paul's words to the Christian congregation at Galatia? IF some Messianic Jews today are anti-Paul does that mean they are mistaken OR is it Paul that is mistaken when he says ...

"However, even if we ourselves or a heavenly angel should ever preach anything different from what we preached to you, they should be under a curse. I’m repeating what we’ve said before: if anyone preaches something different from what you received, they should be under a curse!" (Galatians 1:8-9)​

It sounds like the OP may believe that Paul's words are partially responsible for Jewish Christians "falling away" from the legalism of Messianic Judaism (e.g circumcision and as many other legal commands, statutes, ordinances that are humanly possible since 70 AD that MJs believe are mandatory within Messianic Judaism). Isn't that the Op's question with respect to "falling away" ... does a Messianic Jew follow the law or the Spirit as Paul implies that the "letter kills" whereas there is freedom in the "Good News" of His Spirit ...

"who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Corinthians 3:6)​

​

 

[Lulav]

​

This phenomenon was possible even evident to Polycarp and other Spirit-filled Bishops that received the baptism of HaShem's Spirit and were possibly mentored by the Apostle John (e.g. Polycarp). All true Christians are Pro-Paul (Jew and non-Jew are One in Christ), and as such are well aware that the "ROOT" gives life to the TREE (true Bride of Christ ~ Parable of the Ten Virgins). It's a matter of a mistaken non-Jewish interpretation of ... "her Christian roots" (RT).

Romans 11:18-20
Do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.​

The first "Bishops" mentioned were (IMO) baptized by Ruach Ha-Kodesh (Hebrew: רוח הקודש, "Holy Spirit" also transliterated Ruacḥ Ha-Godesh). Paul is referring to those non-Jews that had an aire of superiority (RT) as HaShem's Gift to the world.

This came from an old thread that was taken from a website no longer existing.

The question was then asked.

So one must ask, why does Christianity still deny her roots?

.

 

[Lulav]

It sounds like the OP may believe that Paul's words are partially responsible for Jewish Christians "falling away" from the legalism of Messianic Judaism (e.g circumcision and as many other legal commands, statutes, ordinances that are humanly possible since 70 AD that MJs believe are mandatory within Messianic Judaism). Isn't that the Op's question with respect to "falling away" ... does a Messianic Jew follow the law or the Spirit as Paul implies that the "letter kills" whereas there is freedom in the "Good News" of His Spirit ...

This came from an old thread that was taken from a website no longer existing.

The question was then asked.

So one must ask, why does Christianity still deny her roots?

 

[Lulav]

Your list missed James as the first.

This is the listing of the first Orthodox bishops (all Jewish) from the Jerusalem Patriarchate:

1. James the Just
2. Simeon I
3. Justus I
4. Zaccheus
5. Tobias
6. Benjamin I
7. John I
8. Matthias I

The list was compiled by a Jewish believer. I'm not sure why James was missing, maybe because he was the founder?

The listing from the historical Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem includes them all.

I think we all tended to just read the list and not the preamble into it.

"Lulav, post: 73976851, member: 200390"]Hegesippus describes the rivalry between a man named Thebouthis and others, seeking the position of bishop after the death of James, who was said to be the first pastor at Jerusalem.(2) According to Hegesippus, the Hebrew Christians finally chose Simeon, who was a cousin of the Lord, to succeed James.

Epiphanius lists the remaining thirteen Jewish pastors of the Jerusalem Church as:

Justus
Zaccheus
Tobias
Benjamin
John
Mathias
Philip
Seneca
Justus
Levi
Ephrem
Joseph
Jude[/QUOTE]​

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I think we all tended to just read the list and not the preamble into it.

"Lulav, post: 73976851, member: 200390"]Hegesippus describes the rivalry between a man named Thebouthis and others, seeking the position of bishop after the death of James, who was said to be the first pastor at Jerusalem.(2) According to Hegesippus, the Hebrew Christians finally chose Simeon, who was a cousin of the Lord, to succeed James.

​

​

[/QUOTE]

Yes, probably so

 

[AbbaLove]

One inescapable fact/task facing every Messianic Jew posting in this MJ forum is whether or not to point a finger at Paul's writings as possibly coming across as being contrary to the Torah of Judaism.

Every Messianic Jew invariably has to wrestle with whether or not Paul's words are his own religious commentary or in fact inspired and ordained by HaShem. As a Messianic Jew posting in this MJ forum We agree with this forum's SOP which states the following ...

We believe: The books of the Bible (Genesis to Revelation) are ordained by G-d to be
His word to us.​

If Judaism itself didn't set a good example has that contributed to "why does Christianity still deny her roots." So, Paul presents the New Covenant as ordained by HaShem, but some Messianic Jews today still refuse to accept the words of Paul as ordained by the Spirit of HaShem.

“Yerushalayim! Yerushalayim! You kill the prophets! You stone those who are sent to you!
How often I wanted to gather your children, just as a hen gathers her chickens under her
wings, but you refused!" (Matthew 23:37, Luke 13:34)​

It would seem relevant to this thread as to: Why did so many Jews refuse to obey the Words of HaShem under the Torah, just as some Messianic Jews today refuse to accept Paul's words under a New Covenant as being inspired and ordained by the Spirit of HaShem.

 

[Laureate]

Answer:
She doesn't..

True, yet her actual rooting is frail to the point of one in a thousand that are aware, and are not ashamed, and one in ten thousand that actually embrace and demonstrate a Jewish based faith.

But not without provocation from immature beings (on both sides of the fence), who miss represented their positions within the body, presumption, pride, self-will, self-righteousness, straying from applicable Torah, and resisting Hgʰan.

Paul described the denominational mindset as babes who treated the faith as a popularity contest, instead of reasoning together, strife, instead of building upon a common ground, finding reasons to establish (as if it were) a new foundation resulting in divisions, which are difficult to reconcile as long as we are dealing with Babes.

Instead of recognizing the Spirit moving through others on multiple levels, and ascribing praise and glory unto the only one who can manifest such things, they were jealous, and envious, saying, the Most High speaks to me too, and He never revealed such and such to me, you must therefore be an apostate or presumably worse, heaven forbid one of us be found worthy to hear something from on high, without heaven first revealing it to them.

Many of us are still wrestling with miss placed affections, and even more are throwing out (Precious and Innocent) Babies with the bath water, which takes a spiritual technician to unravel and properly sort out, we definitely have our work cut out for us, I am just pleased to know, I am not alone. ❤