The One Reading.....

Timothew · Oct 23, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
I forgot about this thread

Thanks LLOJ, this thread shines light on my thread, "let the reader understand." http://www.christianforums.com/t7443602/

All of this discussion about "ana" is reminding me of another place where "above" and "again" are interchanged, John 3:3. "Unless one is born again (or from above). . ."

The word is ἄνωθεν (anothen): from above, again, from the beginning, the top.
From ano; from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew -- from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.
(Strong's Greek Dictionary)

Tim

visionary · Oct 23, 2010

Fixated on what others are in relationship to the true does not help your own spiritual growth. For if you view others are locked out, then you see no hope for them. If you see that they are to come into a better relationship with Him when for example the blinders come off, then you will be a willing worker for the Lord to see it come to pass. Let those who read,... understand.. to me says a lot about the value of .. reading.. and I would like to add at this moment... reading without the Holy Spirit teaching is like looking at dead letters and not much benefit is gained. Truly understanding as God intended will only come with the Holy Spirit teaching.

AS my hubby always says.. if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem...

After all our Lord is...

Luke 2:32
"..a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel."

OrthodoxyUSA · Oct 23, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
Woule like some thoughts on this from others.

I like studying the greek and the different forms of words used and while translating Revelation some time back, I looked at this greek word for "reading" and decided to see where and how many times it was used.

This greek word #314 is used 32 times in 29 verses in the NT but only 1 Time in Revelation

Revelation 1:3 Happy/blessed the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written for the time nigh.

Parcing the greek word shows it has the suffix meaning "up/above" and the root word for "know-lege".

Generally when we read something we either read it for knowledge or entertainment or because we are told to.

The Bible is more concerned with divine-knowledge of the spiritual things so in essence this word literally translates as "above-knowledge". Thoughts?

314. anaginosko an-ag-in-oce'-ko from 303 and 1097; to know again, i.e. (by extension) to read:--read.
303. ana an-ah' a primary preposition and adverb; properly, up; but (by extension) used (distributively) severally, or (locally) at (etc.):--and, apiece, by, each, every (man), in, through. In compounds (as a prefix) it often means (by implication) repetition, intensity, reversal, etc.
1097. ginosko ghin-oce'-ko a prolonged form of a primary verb; to "know" (absolutely) in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as follow, with others not thus clearly expressed):--allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) know(-ledge), perceived, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.

You are familiar with the station of 'Reader' at the chanters stand?

Those who chant and sing the Psalms in the Ochtoechos and read the Epistles and the Gospels?

"Reader" is a litugical office. He gets exposed to everything. This is the earliest stage of those who are being elected to clergy.

The hearer... kind of speaks for itself doesn't it.

This goes all the way back to the readers in the Temple and courts.

We see it in heavenly worship also. (The book of Life)

I have been serving in the 'readers stand' at an Antiochian Mission Station for six years.

Forgive me...

OrthodoxyUSA · Oct 23, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
I forgot about this thread.
The greek word #314 literally means "above knowledge".

What is interesting also is a form of thegreek word for "mind" is used in Matt 24 and Mark 13 of the Olivet Discourse, which I believe is the same event as showing in Revelation.

I could even read this as having the "mind of Christ" as He represented the "Above". Thoughts?

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written for the time nigh.

Matt 24:15 "Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation the being declared thru Daniel the prophet having stood in a place, holy (the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) let be understanding!/noeitw <3539> (5720) [Mark 13:14]

314. anaginosko an-ag-in-oce'-ko from 303 and 1097; to know again, i.e. (by extension) to read:--read. [Used 32 times in NT.
303. ana an-ah' a primary preposition and adverb; properly, up; but (by extension) used (distributively) severally, or (locally) at (etc.):--and, apiece, by, each, every (man), in, through. In compounds (as a prefix) it often means (by implication) repetition, intensity, reversal, etc.
1097. ginosko ghin-oce'-ko a prolonged form of a primary verb; to "know" (absolutely) in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as follow, with others not thus clearly expressed):--allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) know(-ledge), perceived, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.

3539. noieo noy-eh'-o from 3563; to exercise the mind (observe), i.e. (figuratively) to comprehend, heed:--consider, perceive, think, understand.

WISDOM! LET US ATTEND!

Forgive me...

visionary · Oct 23, 2010

Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 23, 2010

visionary said:
Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

Is this another Law vs Grace thang?
How do the apostate Jews read it

http://www.christianforums.com/t7392923/
How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

Matt 24:9 then they shall be delivering ye up into tribulation, and They shall be Killing Ye, and ye shall be being hated by all of the nations thru/because-of the Name of Me;

1 Thess 2:15 Them also the Lord Jesus killing and the own of them prophets, and Us persecuting; and to God no pleasing and to all men against,

visionary · Oct 23, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
Is this another Law vs Grace thang?
How do the apostate Jews read it

http://www.christianforums.com/t7392923/
How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

Matt 24:9 then they shall be delivering ye up into tribulation, and They shall be Killing Ye, and ye shall be being hated by all of the nations thru/because-of the Name of Me;

1 Thess 2:15 Them also the Lord Jesus killing and the own of them prophets, and Us persecuting; and to God no pleasing and to all men against,

Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

Our Lord and Savior asked that question.. you will have to take it up with Him

Here is another question..

Acts 8:30
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 23, 2010

visionary said:
Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

Our Lord and Savior asked that question.. you will have to take it up with Him

Here is another question..

Acts 8:30
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.

That was concerning the Prophet Isaiah.
What about Daniel the Prophet in Matt 24:15

Matthew 24:15 "Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation, the being declared thru Daniel the Prophet having-stood in a place, holy (the one-reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) let him be minding/understanding"
[Mark 13:14]

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings the in it having been written, for the time nigh.

Gregory Thompson · Oct 23, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
Woule like some thoughts on this from others.

I like studying the greek and the different forms of words used and while translating Revelation some time back, I looked at this greek word for "reading" and decided to see where and how many times it was used.

This greek word #314 is used 32 times in 29 verses in the NT but only 1 Time in Revelation

Revelation 1:3 Happy/blessed the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written for the time nigh.

Parcing the greek word shows it has the suffix meaning "up/above" and the root word for "know-lege".

Generally when we read something we either read it for knowledge or entertainment or because we are told to.

The Bible is more concerned with divine-knowledge of the spiritual things so in essence this word literally translates as "above-knowledge". Thoughts?

314. anaginosko an-ag-in-oce'-ko from 303 and 1097; to know again, i.e. (by extension) to read:--read.
303. ana an-ah' a primary preposition and adverb; properly, up; but (by extension) used (distributively) severally, or (locally) at (etc.):--and, apiece, by, each, every (man), in, through. In compounds (as a prefix) it often means (by implication) repetition, intensity, reversal, etc.
1097. ginosko ghin-oce'-ko a prolonged form of a primary verb; to "know" (absolutely) in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as follow, with others not thus clearly expressed):--allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) know(-ledge), perceived, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.

Are you talking about Sensus Plenior?

Noxot · Jan 7, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
That appears correct.
This word is only mentioned 1 time in Revelation out of the 32 times used in the NT/NC.
Using a greek/english interlinear I decided to see where this particular form of this word is used.

This exact word form is used only 3 times in the NT/NC, 2 of those in the Olivet Discourse of the Gospels concerning Daniel's prophecy.
How would those in Matt 24/Mark 13 be able to "read" when they see the AoD and another question is why is the prefix "ana" used? Thoughts?

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written for the time nigh.

Matt 24:15 "Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation the being declared thru Daniel the prophet having stood in a place, holy (the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) let be understanding!/noeitw <3539> (5720) [Mark 13:14]

Matt 24:15 (YLT)
`Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe)

that word αναγινωσκων adds up to 1985 and there are 2 other words that add up to that. ζητουντων zeteo / seek in acts 21:31 and συσχηματιζεσθε suschematizo / conform in romans 12:2

Acts 21:31 (YLT)
and they seeking to kill him, a rumour came to the chief captain of the band that all Jerusalem hath been thrown into confusion,

Rom 12:2 (YLT)
and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what is the will of God--the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

here are 2 verses that adds up to 1985

Isa 42:18 (YLT)
Ye deaf, hear; and ye blind, look to see.

Prov 21:26 (YLT)
All the day desiring he hath desired, And the righteous giveth and withholdeth not.

this is all very obviously ordered by God in my eyes. i mean who the heck would not be able to see the connections. also to further show something crazy I will again repeat the number connection with 'the abomination of desolation' and the 'of the synagogue of Satan'

The Abomination of desolation = 3521 = Of the synagogue of Satan

The Number 3521 - The Abomination of Desolation

Rev Randy · Jan 7, 2013

Your onto something lloj but using the Strong's alone won't fix the issue of translating. If you translate the NT from Greek to English word for word it will make less sense than it does in either language.
As you've noticed in your Strong's, there are often two , three of more meanings to a word. Picking the correct meaning can only be done when reading the entire passage with context. There is translation and transliteration. Using a linear interpolator can be helpful but only when it's not put together in a bias manner. Most out there are biased as they are put together by people who desire a certain meaning to come forth.
Your best bet is to study basic Greek like you studied basic English in grade school. Sadly most teaching tools teach literary (more formal) Greek which is not what the NT is written in. It's about as close to common Greek as Shakespeare is to common English.

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 7, 2013

Rev Randy said:
Your onto something lloj but using the Strong's alone won't fix the issue of translating. If you translate the NT from Greek to English word for word it will make less sense than it does in either language.
As you've noticed in your Strong's, there are often two , three of more meanings to a word. Picking the correct meaning can only be done when reading the entire passage with context. There is translation and transliteration. Using a linear interpolator can be helpful but only when it's not put together in a bias manner. Most out there are biased as they are put together by people who desire a certain meaning to come forth.
Your best bet is to study basic Greek like you studied basic English in grade school. Sadly most teaching tools teach literary (more formal) Greek which is not what the NT is written in. It's about as close to common Greek as Shakespeare is to common English.

What about an interlinear?
I have been using this one for several yrs and has been an immense help.
I can click on hebrew/greek words then click on a particular form of them and it will show where those exact word forms are used in the Bible. Best of all, it is free! Ever hear of it?

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Greek / Hebrew interlinear Bible software

- Powerful sophisticated Interlinear
- Free, fast and easy-to-use
- Overcome the language barrier and get in touch with the original

ISA basic 2.1.5 what's new? / Database Info
NT GreekScrTR with sublinears : ScrTR_t, Strong, Parsing, CGTS, CGES_id.
OT HebrewWLC with sublinears : WLC_t, WLC_tm, CHES v2.0, Strong.
(optional: Hebrew font info)

TranslationAVLexiconStrong's Greek + Hebrew

Habakk · Jan 7, 2013

There is also BibleWorks software but it's expensive.

Rev Randy · Jan 7, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
What about an interlinear?
I have been using this one for several yrs and has been an immense help.
I can click on hebrew/greek words then click on a particular form of them and it will show where those exact word forms are used in the Bible. Best of all, it is free! Ever hear of it?

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Greek / Hebrew interlinear Bible software
- Powerful sophisticated Interlinear
- Free, fast and easy-to-use
- Overcome the language barrier and get in touch with the original

ISA basic 2.1.5 what's new? / Database Info
NT GreekScrTR with sublinears : ScrTR_t, Strong, Parsing, CGTS, CGES_id.
OT HebrewWLC with sublinears : WLC_t, WLC_tm, CHES v2.0, Strong.
(optional: Hebrew font info)

TranslationAVLexiconStrong's Greek + Hebrew

That ISA is a great point as it attempts to prove something. It's maker has the theology that there is no trinity and attempts to prove his point through that free program. Biblesoft has a better one but it's not free. Do some google on ISA and you'll read some angry stuff especially from those who are Greek. I haven't used those others you've listed. I did try ISA and found some problems.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 9, 2013

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

I forgot about this thread.
The greek word #314 literally means "above knowledge".

OrthodoxyUSA said:
WISDOM! LET US ATTEND!

Forgive me...

.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 25, 2013

MamaZ said:
The one hearing is the one understanding..

And then there are those who are hearing and NOT understanding

.

InSpiritInTruth · Mar 25, 2013

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

But.....

John 3:32
And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

How then can man beingflesh receive that heavenly spiritual testimony and knowledge from above?

New wine must be put into new vessels and both are preserved.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 25, 2013

Originally Posted by Rev Randy

Your onto something lloj but using the Strong's alone won't fix the issue of translating. If you translate the NT from Greek to English word for word it will make less sense than it does in either language.
As you've noticed in your Strong's, there are often two , three of more meanings to a word. Picking the correct meaning can only be done when reading the entire passage with context. There is translation and transliteration. Using a linear interpolator can be helpful but only when it's not put together in a bias manner. Most out there are biased as they are put together by people who desire a certain meaning to come forth.
Your best bet is to study basic Greek like you studied basic English in grade school. Sadly most teaching tools teach literary (more formal) Greek which is not what the NT is written in. It's about as close to common Greek as Shakespeare is to common English.

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

What about an interlinear?

I have been using this one for several yrs and has been an immense help.
I can click on hebrew/greek words then click on a particular form of them and it will show where those exact word forms are used in the Bible. Best of all, it is free! Ever hear of it?

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Greek / Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Rev Randy said:
That ISA is a great point as it attempts to prove something. It's maker has the theology that there is no trinity and attempts to prove his point through that free program.

Biblesoft has a better one but it's not free. Do some google on ISA and you'll read some angry stuff especially from those who are Greek. I haven't used those others you've listed. I did try ISA and found some problems.

Not sure how you arrive at that concerning the creator of that ISA program not believing in the "trinity" I will investigate it further.
[The ISA does appear to go by a different Greek text than the Tex-Rec [I think it uses the W-H Ms?]]

I will check out Biblesoft", but I doubt I will pay for a program unless it is par-excellent.

...

Rev Randy · Mar 26, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
Not sure how you arrive at that concerning the creator of that ISA program not believing in the "trinity" I will investigate it further.
[The ISA does appear to go by a different Greek text than the Tex-Rec [I think it uses the W-H Ms?]]

I will check out Biblesoft", but I doubt I will pay for a program unless it is par-excellent.

...

ISA2Basic is derived from the transliteration of Adolf Ernst Knoch.

Knoch's work on the Concordant Bible translation led to the development of his theological beliefs.
He came to the conclusion that some doctrines, which his church had required him to believe, resulted conspicuously from inaccurate or incorrect translations of the Bible, and Knoch discarded them.
These include, for example, teaching about Hell.
Though in a revised form, but still in principle, he retained the strong dispensationalism of the Brethren Movement (developed by Darby), and the two different gospels for the Jews and the Nations.
The views of Ethelbert William Bullinger may also have influenced him. Knoch was put off by the doctrine of the Trinity, saying that its sense of Divinity of Jesus Christ as being equal with God the Father is not biblical.
He also said that the soul dissolves upon death, as the soul from the body and the mind is (soul sleep). Knoch believed the doctrine of the immortal soul to be an unscriptural doctrine of Plato.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 21, 2013

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Not sure how you arrive at that concerning the creator of that ISA program not believing in the "trinity" I will investigate it further.
[The ISA does appear to go by a different Greek text than the Tex-Rec [I think it uses the W-H Ms?]]

I will check out Biblesoft", but I doubt I will pay for a program unless it is par-excellent.

Click to expand...

Rev Randy said:
ISA2Basic is derived from the transliteration of Adolf Ernst Knoch.

Knoch's work on the Concordant Bible translation led to the development of his theological beliefs.
He came to the conclusion that some doctrines, which his church had required him to believe, resulted conspicuously from inaccurate or incorrect translations of the Bible, and Knoch discarded them.
These include, for example, teaching about Hell.
Though in a revised form, but still in principle, he retained the strong dispensationalism of the Brethren Movement (developed by Darby), and the two different gospels for the Jews and the Nations.
The views of Ethelbert William Bullinger may also have influenced him. Knoch was put off by the doctrine of the Trinity, saying that its sense of Divinity of Jesus Christ as being equal with God the Father is not biblical.
He also said that the soul dissolves upon death, as the soul from the body and the mind is (soul sleep). Knoch believed the doctrine of the immortal soul to be an unscriptural doctrine of Plato.

Ahhh, ok. Thanks for that info.....

.

The One Reading.....

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Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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Sometimes I pretend to be normal

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Sometimes I pretend to be normal

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Well-Known Member

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Sometimes I pretend to be normal

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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