The office of the Papacy

[Athanasias]

I have dialoged and debated on many issues in regards to the Catholic faith here but I do not think I ever did a debate or dialog on the Popes office itself. There are 3 things that I believe helped me come back to the Catholic faith that I once left. They are the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and sacrifice of Mass, Mary and her role in salvation history, and the Papacy. So for me these are my top 3 reasons I find compelling to become and stay Catholic. I call them God's 3 secret weapons against Satan. I have debated the Mass and Mary on here. So I thought I would dialog on the 3rd thing that keeps me Catholic(the Papacy).

I am not looking so much for a debate as much as I am a respectful dialog on the reasons why Catholics believe in the office of the Papacy. Like all my other dialogs this would be a slow prayerful respectful dialog. There would be no winners as it would not a debate but more of a "here is what and why we believe it" kind of dialog. Scripture of course would be used and explained.

It would be as many rounds as desired. No limit on size of post. No time limit(as I am now a busy father of 2) and each side would have as long as wanted to answer each post. No badmouthing or ill will should be presented on either side. Prayer and good manners are always a rule. I would like to get into all the biblical and historical reasons we as Catholics hold to the office of Pope and what the office even means. I believe its Jewish in origin. At any rate there is no rush. One qualification is this. No anti-Catholics. I love dialoging with my good hearted protestant brethren who are simply non-Catholic but I will not debate a anti-Catholic because they are closed to real dialog on these issues anyway.

Well that is it. God bless you all. Hit me up on a pm is you meet qualifications and are interested.

In Jesus through Mary,

Athanasias

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

I have dialoged and debated on many issues in regards to the Catholic faith here but I do not think I ever did a debate or dialog on the Popes office itself. There are 3 things that I believe helped me come back to the Catholic faith that I once left. They are the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and sacrifice of Mass, Mary and her role in salvation history, and the Papacy. So for me these are my top 3 reasons I find compelling to become and stay Catholic. I call them God's 3 secret weapons against Satan. I have debated the Mass and Mary on here. So I thought I would dialog on the 3rd thing that keeps me Catholic(the Papacy).

I am not looking so much for a debate as much as I am a respectful dialog on the reasons why Catholics believe in the office of the Papacy. Like all my other dialogs this would be a slow prayerful respectful dialog. There would be no winners as it would not a debate but more of a "here is what and why we believe it" kind of dialog. Scripture of course would be used and explained.

It would be as many rounds as desired. No limit on size of post. No time limit(as I am now a busy father of 2) and each side would have as long as wanted to answer each post. No badmouthing or ill will should be presented on either side. Prayer and good manners are always a rule. I would like to get into all the biblical and historical reasons we as Catholics hold to the office of Pope and what the office even means. I believe its Jewish in origin. At any rate there is no rush. One qualification is this. No anti-Catholics. I love dialoging with my good hearted protestant brethren who are simply non-Catholic but I will not debate a anti-Catholic because they are closed to real dialog on these issues anyway.

Well that is it. God bless you all. Hit me up on a pm is you meet qualifications and are interested.

In Jesus through Mary,

Athanasias

Hello Ath, As a non conformist to the RCC, id be willing to debate you on the subject of Papal Infalliability and I would promise to treat yourself with respect but Id be exposing this RCC Doctrine . I take a firm stand against apostate teachings that go against the Bible that are legalistic in nature. I greatly respect the current Pope for his humanitarian efforts and the spreading of love, etc... for that I commend him.

In conclusion, Im not an anti-Catholic ...rather I love all Catholics for having been made in the image of our Creator , but I am anti- Catholic Institution and its doctrines that keep people away from having the truth..... with the Gospel being the biggest concern. If you accept my debate proposal, I would also like to touch on what exactly IS the Gospel Message and how the RCC/Pope has it totally wrong , but primarily the Pope being infalliable on their teaching with the standard being Gods Word which we both love, adore, and respect. Dave.

 

[com7fy8]

You could call me anti-Catholic, I suppose; yet, once you invited me to a debate Now I am more "open-minded" to having an examining dialog with you.

My points of concern would include how the credibility of the "Apostolic Succession" could be effected by the "Epistle of Clement" and by how reliable the Roman popes have been in appointing qualified personnel responsible overseeing the screening and ordaining pastors.

I have the prejudice, though, that if the Roman Catholic Church changed to obey the scriptures, there would no longer be the Roman Catholic Church for me to join.

 

[Athanasias]

Hello Ath, As a non conformist to the RCC, id be willing to debate you on the subject of Papal Infalliability and I would promise to treat yourself with respect but Id be exposing this RCC Doctrine . I take a firm stand against apostate teachings that go against the Bible that are legalistic in nature. I greatly respect the current Pope for his humanitarian efforts and the spreading of love, etc... for that I commend him.

In conclusion, Im not an anti-Catholic ...rather I love all Catholics for having been made in the image of our Creator , but I am anti- Catholic Institution and its doctrines that keep people away from having the truth..... with the Gospel being the biggest concern. If you accept my debate proposal, I would also like to touch on what exactly IS the Gospel Message and how the RCC/Pope has it totally wrong , but primarily the Pope being infalliable on their teaching with the standard being Gods Word which we both love, adore, and respect. Dave.

Sorry Dave we have debated on the Gospel before and that debates stands in history.
Remember?
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...hat-jesus-and-his-disciples-preached.7808868/


I want to dialog and not debate on this subject with A). A protestant or Someone who believes that Catholics are Christians and the Catholic Church is a Chrisitian Church, and B) someone who is open to learning truly the reasons we believe what we do from scripture and history from our POV. I know from our debates in the past that you do not qualify on either point. Thanks for the compliments anyway on our current Pope.

God bless you!

In Jesus through Mary,

Athanasais

 

[Athanasias]

You could call me anti-Catholic, I suppose; yet, once you invited me to a debate Now I am more "open-minded" to having an examining dialog with you.

My points of concern would include how the credibility of the "Apostolic Succession" could be effected by the "Epistle of Clement" and by how reliable the Roman popes have been in appointing qualified personnel responsible overseeing the screening and ordaining pastors.

I have the prejudice, though, that if the Roman Catholic Church changed to obey the scriptures, there would no longer be the Roman Catholic Church for me to join.

Hi I am not sure who you are. I do not remember asking you to debate before? When was that? I am not sure where you stand on issues because I do not remember you. If you believe that A). the Catholic Church is a Christian Church and B). are truly open to learning the reasons why Catholics believe what they do from scripture and history and not just out to fight or debate but actually dialog then yes I would like to dialog with you.

A good example of dialog which is prayerful and mutually respectful can be found here between Myself a Catholic and Mark who is devout Lutheran on priesthood in the new covenant. http://www.christianforums.com/threads/priesthood.7801371/

Read that and if that is the kind of mutually respectful and prayerful dialog you want to do I am up for it. If not then no need to bother. I do not want to debate this.

In Jesus through Mary,

Athanasias

 

[com7fy8]

I do not want to debate this.

Ok . . . before, you offered "debate", and possibly you have developed from that, since then; I did not mean to hold you to that. I offer I already am familiar with Roman Catholic belief and practice and apologetics. So, we can skip it

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

ts

Sorry Dave we have debated on the Gospel before and that debates stands in history.
Remember?
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...hat-jesus-and-his-disciples-preached.7808868/


I want to dialog and not debate on this subject with A). A protestant or Someone who believes that Catholics are Christians and the Catholic Church is a Chrisitian Church, and B) someone who is open to learning truly the reasons we believe what we do from scripture and history from our POV. I know from our debates in the past that you do not qualify on either point. Thanks for the compliments anyway on our current Pope.

God bless you!

In Jesus through Mary,

Athanasais

Oh yes, thanks for reminding me we debated The Real Gospel.

I certainly believe that SOME Catholics are bonfied Christians according to the biblical Gospel as explicitly found in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 without adding anything to it. I personally don't believe that the RCC is a true Christian church because it doesn't have the Gospel right and its doctrines serve to denigrate the actual work of Christs FINISHED atonement for all sins.....leaving zilch for the person to do himself. Further , I have devoted hundreds of hours dialoguing with Catholic scholars, laity , Priests, breaking bread with them , attending catholic services , deeply reading the Catechism endorsed by JP2 and performing a juxtapose between the Bible and Catholic formal doctrines. Im afraid that the common age-old excuse that a Protestant doesn't qualify as someone who is familiar with the RCC , is simply bogus . Finally, I think the Pope is outstanding when it comes to humanitarian endeavors...its just too bad that he is made an Idol , isn't Christ on Earth, with the papacy proven to offer up apostate teachings (with the Bible as the standard, not the madeup traditions of men) .

So, you are correct that I wouldn't be your best choice for this debate ; I take too big of a stand in exposing false teaching as Eph. 5:13 commands me too. You might find a Protestant in here who is more mamby - pamby when it comes to tolerating apostasy and to that end, I wish you success.

Regards, Dave.

<Staff Edit>

 

[Athanasias]

Ok . . . before, you offered "debate", and possibly you have developed from that, since then; I did not mean to hold you to that. I offer I already am familiar with Roman Catholic belief and practice and apologetics. So, we can skip it

Well like I ask you before who are you? When did we talk? I have do not remember you? No if you read my OP for this Papal dialog on this is expressly says:

"I am not looking so much for a debate as much as I am a respectful dialog on the reasons why Catholics believe in the office of the Papacy. Like all my other dialogs this would be a slow prayerful respectful dialog. There would be no winners as it would not a debate but more of a "here is what and why we believe it" kind of dialog. Scripture of course would be used and explained.

It would be as many rounds as desired. No limit on size of post. No time limit(as I am now a busy father of 2) and each side would have as long as wanted to answer each post. No badmouthing or ill will should be presented on either side. Prayer and good manners are always a rule. I would like to get into all the biblical and historical reasons we as Catholics hold to the office of Pope and what the office even means. I believe its Jewish in origin. At any rate there is no rush. One qualification is this. No anti-Catholics. I love dialoging with my good hearted protestant brethren who are simply non-Catholic but I will not debate a anti-Catholic because they are closed to real dialog on these issues anyway."


Now here is an example of my ecumenical dialogs with a good protestant brother who is not anti-Catholic but does not agree with the catholic church either.
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...es-of-faith-article-iv-justification.7829713/

If this is what you can dialog like then fine but if not then no.

 

[com7fy8]

If this is what you can dialog like then fine but if not then no.

I checked; you said "dialog", not "debate". I stand corrected.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Admin Hat...

Since the request is for respectful dialogue; let's try and maintain respectful dialogue here in the proposal thread as well; that seems to be a reasonable expectation.

Mark
CF Admin

P.S.: there has been a bit of a cleanup.

 

[OrthodoxForever]

Since the Orthodox position on this is different, I rise to your challenge

 

[Athanasias]

Since the Orthodox position on this is different, I rise to your challenge

Ok my friend I accept! Lets start a friendly prayerful ecumenical dialog on this issue in the formal debate forum so we can understand each others position better. This will be fun and prayerful and i hope to learn much from you my sister. God bless you! Maybe we can get Mark to set us up?

In Jesus through Mary,

Athanasias

 

[OrthodoxForever]

When would you like to begin? Other than friendliness what are your terms?

 

[Athanasias]

When would you like to begin? Other than friendliness what are your terms?

If they set us up I will begin this week possibly tommorrow. I have few terms. friendliness, respect, dialog and not debate, alot of prayer, and that even when we dissagree and correct each other over our misconceptions we both have that we both truly listen to each others views prayerfully and not try to score points. I think we should not limit ourselves to rounds or time. Some times It may take me a week to respond other times it may take only hours. And you can post as much or as little as you want. Does that help? I will let you go first. Let me know when they set us up.

 

[OrthodoxForever]

Works for me since some days school and church obligations dont leave me with more than an hour or so

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Guys, I just saw this; will set it up sometime this afternoon or this evening.

 

[Athanasias]

Guys, I just saw this; will set it up sometime this afternoon or this evening.

Cool. Has it been set up yet?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

No, sorry, I got swamped at work; tonight I have night school; but tomorrow I'm off. Should be able to get it done then.

Again, so sorry.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

It is set up; I will get the Peanut Galleries up as soon as I can!

The thread is here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/catholic-orthodox-dialogue-the-office-of-the-papacy.7920900/

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

First post is up: http://www.christianforums.com/thre...e-office-of-the-papacy.7920900/#post-68938946

While I had designated Athanasias to go first, I found a post by OrthodoxForever, and have approved it. Good and civil starting point.

I will try to set up the peanut galleries later as my internet was down almost all day yesterday.