The Odyssey

[J_B_]

A short, easy watch:

 

[SelfSim]

A short, easy watch:

And .. so?
(Its sort of customary to have a point in posting threads with links to YouTubes having only general content in the Science Forum ..)

 

[apollosdtr]

Thanx for posting this video! Now I'm going to look for where those plants were found... and track where this information came from. Good job.

I think that Homer borrowed what he sang from other minstrels. Seems like that's the way it was done, back in the day.

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"It is primarily found around the eastern Black Sea coast in the ancient provinces of Colchis and Lazistan (the Euxine Province)."
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and Colchis is where Jason and the Argonauts went...

Thanks so much.

 

[J_B_]

And .. so?
(Its sort of customary to have a point in posting threads with links to YouTubes having only general content in the Science Forum ..)

Yeah, I know, but I was hoping a conversation would take off on its own. The typical result once I say anything is a debate about my opinions rather than the source material.

Since that didn't happen, two things:
1) It's an interesting rationalization of the possible natural phenomena that could explain how parts of the Odyssey are based on real events. The lesson being, just because the story was told from a different world view doesn't mean it should automatically be dismissed as fully mythical. Of course that doesn't mean it has to be accepted either. I've never heard of any historical data supporting Odysseus as a historical person (though I believe there are some tidbits supporting the Trojan War as historical), but I do vaguely recall an extensive investigation into Jason & the Argonauts that had a few intriguing bits and pieces here and there.
2) It's an ancient story that isn't the Bible, which makes it an attractive playground for a discussion about the veracity of our knowledge of the past. It's been entertaining to watch the methods amateur historians apply to the Bible being turned on other ancient persons - only to produce a conclusion that no ancient people ever existed. For example: Did Muhammad Exist?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... It's been entertaining to watch the methods amateur historians apply to the Bible being turned on other ancient persons - only to produce a conclusion that no ancient people ever existed. For example: Did Muhammad Exist?

Are you sure the conclusion is that 'no ancient people ever existed', or might it be that there's no evidence that certain heroes of myth and legend ever existed?

 

[J_B_]

Are you sure the conclusion is that 'no ancient people ever existed', or might it be that there's no evidence that certain heroes of myth and legend ever existed?

As I said, discussion always turns to my opinions rather than the source material. I must be more entertaining than my kids say I am.

My comment might have contained a wee bit of sarcasm, but the ramifications extend far beyond a few myths here and there. During my graduate history work professors expressed a growing concern with the presentism of the post, post-modern crowd - the idea, if you're unfamiliar with it, is that nothing from the past matters; only the present matters - that the past lacks 'reality' and has no impact on the present. The reason for this is a historical school of thought that we can never know any truth about the past. All we can know is stories about the past filtered through age after age of varying perspectives.

Isaac Newton becomes a myth just as Odysseus (if he existed) became a myth.

 

[SelfSim]

The reason for this is a historical school of thought that we can never know any truth about the past. All we can know is stories about the past filtered through age after age of varying perspectives.

Isaac Newton becomes a myth just as Odysseus (if he existed) became a myth.

The existence of certain individuals is only of anecodotal (historical) interest, (as is any 'truth' about some historical stories).
When what is left behind is tests which can still produce the same results as when they were executed in the past, is what matters in science.

 

[J_B_]

The existence of certain individuals is only of anecodotal (historical) interest, (as is any 'truth' about some historical stories).
When what is left behind is tests which can still produce the same results as when they were executed in the past, is what matters in science.

I don't agree with that.

 

[SelfSim]

I don't agree with that.

And yet you complain that:

As I said, discussion always turns to my opinions rather than the source material.

.. where the source material left behind by people are the tests, yet you then present your agreement (based on your opinions), and not the tests, as being the focus of what you want to discuss?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[J_B_]

And yet you complain that:.. where the source material left behind by people are the tests, yet you then present your agreement (based on your opinions), and not the tests, as being the focus of what you want to discuss?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I thought that's all you wanted. Does this mean you're ready to move beyond a simple examination of my opinion and look at what is contained in the video?

 

[SelfSim]

I thought that's all you wanted. Does this mean you're ready to move beyond a simple examination of my opinion and look at what is contained in the video?

I did watch the video, even prior to my post#2. Its just light entertainment as far as I can see.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

As I said, discussion always turns to my opinions rather than the source material. I must be more entertaining than my kids say I am.

My comment might have contained a wee bit of sarcasm, but the ramifications extend far beyond a few myths here and there. During my graduate history work professors expressed a growing concern with the presentism of the post, post-modern crowd - the idea, if you're unfamiliar with it, is that nothing from the past matters; only the present matters - that the past lacks 'reality' and has no impact on the present. The reason for this is a historical school of thought that we can never know any truth about the past. All we can know is stories about the past filtered through age after age of varying perspectives.

Isaac Newton becomes a myth just as Odysseus (if he existed) became a myth.

We can't know past truths with absolute certainty - but we can never know anything about states of affairs in the world with absolute certainty. But that doesn't mean we know nothing. We can have varying degrees of certainty of knowledge, given a rational assessment of the evidence, and, if possible, testing our conclusions.

Presentism has serious physical problems (e.g. Special Relativity, perceptual lag, etc) as well as metaphysical problems (continuity, the infinitesimal moment, the passage of time, etc).

 

[J_B_]

I did watch the video, even prior to my post#2. Its just light entertainment as far as I can see.

Too bad.

 

[SelfSim]

Too bad.

Compared with what?