The Normal Christian Life

[SavedByGrace3]

1Jo 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This is a verse that I did understand for a number of years. Something was wrong, and I could never quite comprehend what was being said. On the one hand, I knew we were new creatures, created in Christ Jesus into good works, partakers of the divine nature, after the image of God (2 Cor 5:17-21, Eph 2:10, 2 Pet 1:4, Col 3:10). I knew that because we have this new divine nature, which is the spiritual seed of God, we cannot sin (1 John 3:9, 5:18). We are good trees that cannot put forth evil fruit (Matt 7:18).
So it bothered me for a long time. One night, in the wee hours of the morning, I was in fellowship with the Lord and He just opened up something to me.
Read the verses leading up to 1 John 1:8:

1Jo 1:
5 This is the Message which we have heard from the Lord Jesus and now deliver to you--God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness.
6 If, while we are living in darkness, we profess to have fellowship with Him, we speak falsely and are not adhering to the truth.

The key word is IF.
If we are in darkness and say we still are in fellowship with God, then we are lying. But we are not always in darkness. The normal Christian life is to be in the light with Him.

1Jo 1:
7 But if we live in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, cleanses us from all sin.

These verses about being sinful as well as those that follow, only pertain to people who find themselves in darkness. If you find yourself in darkness, and claim that you did not get there by sinning, then the truth is not in you. The only way believers get into darkness is by sinning! That is why he says:

1Jo 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

In other words, if you find yourself in darkness, and if claim that you have not sinned, then you deceive yourself!

Can you see the difference here? He is not saying that sinning and being in darkness is the normal state of the believer. He is just saying that sin is the only way a person gets into darkness.

 

[enoch son]

That how I read it. In the same way as from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. FROM ONE STATE OF BEING TO ANOTHER STATE OF BEING.

 

[flyfishing]

I believe the Bible is literal..

I believe in using context to examine the meaning of a scripture but not to use it for A PRIVATE INTERPERTATION..

The context of John ch 1 is fellowship with the father and Jesus.. This is the way to true joy.

If we take the arguement as proposed above that the context of the scripture is being in darkness then when one sins then they need to get re saved.. God is light and in him is no darkness, if we are in such a perfect union with him that we can attain unto a sinless state to fall from such means we can no longer be in union and need salvation..

But the whole premise of this fallacic interpertation is a misunderstanding of the greek grammar of 1john 3:9. The language means does not continually sin..

I john 1;9 If we confess our sins, written to believers. Now looking at the true context of what is being said in 1 john. It is the denial of sin that is darkness.. But to acknowledge your sin is bringing them to the light.

Remember Jesus's words out of our hearts proceed... Any unkind thought is sin and mut be dealt with.. Not to do so is to be in darkness..

 

[Trish1947]

So can this flesh I dwell in right now become totally Holy before the change comes? If it can, then why change it?

 

[enoch son]

FLY; your doctrine is one of works and not divine grace. I will stand on GRACE.

 

[flyfishing]

FLY; your doctrine is one of works and not divine grace. I will stand on GRACE.

No you misunderstand me.. It is all by grace but grace does not lie.. It tells and depends upon the truth.. Btw if you choose to make a broad accusation of such please at least have the decency to prove your point, and show me where anything i have said can be considered of works..

 

[flyfishing]

So can this flesh I dwell in right now become totally Holy before the change comes? If it can, then why change it?

Trish this is exactly the problem.. The tree bearing fruit example and such are flawed because this "mortality" has not put on immortality yet.. And salvation will not be complete until it has..

 

[enoch son]

YOU POINT IS, WITHOUT YOU GOD CAN NOT SAVE YOU. I THINK HE DID A GREAT JOB OF THAT ON THE CROSS! THE ONLY THING WE DID WAS PUT SIN ON HIM! BASIC GOSPEL 101.

 

[flyfishing]

YOU POINT IS, WITHOUT YOU GOD CAN NOT SAVE YOU. I THINK HE DID A GREAT JOB OF THAT ON THE CROSS! THE ONLY THING WE DID WAS PUT SIN ON HIM! BASIC GOSPEL 101.

Enoch I am putting you on ignore.. I asked you rather politely to show me exactly where you get these unfounded accusations..

 

[SavedByGrace3]

So can this flesh I dwell in right now become totally Holy before the change comes? If it can, then why change it?

I am not sure who you are addressing this to sis.

 

[flyfishing]

I am not sure who you are addressing this to sis.

Must be to you..

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Trish this is exactly the problem.. The tree bearing fruit example and such are flawed because this "mortality" has not put on immortality yet.. And salvation will not be complete until it has..

And this is exactly the point. We are not talking about the flesh. We are talking about the inward man of the heart. We are talking about the part of you that has the "seed of God". We are talking about your reborn spirit.
When you got born again, your soul (mind,will, emotions) was not made new and replaced. It still has the same thoughts, will, and emotions it had before. You still have the same memories, likes and dislikes, and feelings you did before. Your body certainly did not get born again. It is exactly the same as it was the moment before you were born again.
The key part that did get totally replaced is your spirit. It is no longer you that live, but Christ that lives in you. This part of you cannot sin because it has the seed of God:

1 John 3:10 (Prophetic School New Testament)
Everything that has been begotten of God does not sin because God's seed lives within. There is no power to sin because of the generating out of God.

 

[Trish1947]

I am not sure who you are addressing this to sis.

Hi Diddy, it was a general question to anyone that thinks that they are going to be saved by works of the flesh. Trying to make it Holy, and can it be attained?? Thats not what happend to me.. I have a new spiritual life. I subdue what I can in the flesh, you know, those "weights" that can hamper what you already have, because sometimes it can interfere with my spiritual growth, but it still is not redeemed until the change comes.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

1Jo 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This is a verse that I did understand for a number of years. Something was wrong, and I could never quite comprehend what was being said. On the one hand, I knew we were new creatures, created in Christ Jesus into good works, partakers of the divine nature, after the image of God (2 Cor 5:17-21, Eph 2:10, 2 Pet 1:4, Col 3:10). I knew that because we have this new divine nature, which is the spiritual seed of God, we cannot sin (1 John 3:9, 5:18). We are good trees that cannot put forth evil fruit (Matt 7:18).
So it bothered me for a long time. One night, in the wee hours of the morning, I was in fellowship with the Lord and He just opened up something to me.
Read the verses leading up to 1 John 1:8:

1Jo 1:
5 This is the Message which we have heard from the Lord Jesus and now deliver to you--God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness.
6 If, while we are living in darkness, we profess to have fellowship with Him, we speak falsely and are not adhering to the truth.

The key word is IF.
If we are in darkness and say we still are in fellowship with God, then we are lying. But we are not always in darkness. The normal Christian life is to be in the light with Him.

1Jo 1:
7 But if we live in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, cleanses us from all sin.

These verses about being sinful as well as those that follow, only pertain to people who find themselves in darkness. If you find yourself in darkness, and claim that you did not get there by sinning, then the truth is not in you. The only way believers get into darkness is by sinning! That is why he says:

1Jo 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

In other words, if you find yourself in darkness, and if claim that you have not sinned, then you deceive yourself!

Can you see the difference here? He is not saying that sinning and being in darkness is the normal state of the believer. He is just saying that sin is the only way a person gets into darkness.

Good job as usual diddy. Too many people believe they are still slaves to sin when really, according to Jesus we are set us free from it. Romans 6:19 "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness."

We can choose to act out according to our flesh or we can choose to act out according to righteousness. Since we can do "all things through Christ Who gives us strength", we really have no excuse for yielding to sin other than "we did'nt want to". But the good news is. . .there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Yes!!!!!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Good job as usual diddy. Too many people believe they are still slaves to sin when really, according to Jesus we are set us free from it. Romans 6:19 "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness."

We can choose to act out according to our flesh or we can choose to act out according to righteousness. Since we can do "all things through Christ Who gives us strength", we really have no excuse for yielding to sin other than "we did'nt want to". But the good news is. . .there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Yes!!!!!

Absolutely sis.
And the greatest thing of all is that we can have confidence in the spirit of Christ in us. If we follow the inclinations of the spirit of Christ in us (I am not talking about the Holy Spirit here) then we will always do the will of the Father. It will never lead us wrong. Whoever is born of God cannot sin... IF they follow the leading of that spirit.
"....it is no longer I that live.... it is Christ that lives in me..."
When we act in accordance with the spirit that is in us, it is:

• no longer we that speak, but Christ that speaks in us!
• no longer we that believe, but Christ believes in us!
• no longer we that love, but Christ that loves in us!

There is great joy in coming to this understanding. We can know that we are in the exact and perfect will of God if we walk according to the spirit of Christ that now lives in us.

 

[Trish1947]

It seems really hard to make people see when your walking in the spirit, or your new life in Christ, you have put on the new man. Jesus is in control, I find that I'm not perfect in the flesh but the more I walk in the spirit of Christ, my flesh is not in control. It's being subdued to it's desires. And it gets better all the time. This is the work of Christ in our life. I'm not the same as I was a year ago, or even 6 months ago. I'm being changed all the time.