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The No true Scotsman Fallacy

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smaneck

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You keep bringing up that incident surrounding the Last Temptation. I had to google it because I had never heard of it, and it was a fairly isolated reaction in a city in France where molotov cocktails were thrown at a theatre that showed it, and a few other theatres were graffitied. 14 people were injured in the incident with the molotov cocktails, nobody died.

But all that is beside the point. You have trashed Christianity because you were persecuted by some Christians you knew growing up, yet you freely, FREELY, defend the Islamic extremists who do much worse than injure a few people and graffiti a building. It is the disconnect there that shows that you have a bias against a much more tolerant group than you do against extremists. What it shows is that you believe in the No True Scotsman fallacy while denying others the right to believe in it, too.

I never claimed to have been persecuted by Christians nor did I ever defend an Islamic extremist. What I do is defend the religion of Islam against Christian extremists who constantly attack and blame it for the actions of a few. No, the reaction against the Last Temptation was not an isolated incident. Apparently you are too young to remember, I am not. The worst attacks were in France but those were by no means the only ones. One man drove his truck into the lobby of the movie theater. There were other theaters in the US that were subject to arson attacks and one had their movie screen slashed The movie was banned in many countries and here in the South no movie theater dared show it. Even though only one Jew was involved in the production of this movie it gave rise to the most virulent anti-semitic attacks.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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I'm a historian. I have the copies of the primary resources in my own library. So give author, title, and date.

Oh, and your claim is falsified by your cited "reference." It says St. Ignatius of Antioch, who was never condemned.

Remember: primary resources trump everything.


Torah trumps New Testament!! Jews Win!!
 
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dfw69

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Torah trumps New Testament!! Jews Win!!
Torah trumps new testament???...Moses greater than Jesus?...Moses was a servant ...Jesus is a son...his testament is greater ....:)
 
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dfw69

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In the Valleys, the half crown was always referred to as 'half a dollar'

And the dollar.....of course.....trumps everything :)

The new testament is not a half a dollar...all the promises are recieved by obedience to the new testament...all the crowns. ...:)
 
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A New Dawn

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I never claimed to have been persecuted by Christians nor did I ever defend an Islamic extremist. What I do is defend the religion of Islam against Christian extremists who constantly attack and blame it for the actions of a few. No, the reaction against the Last Temptation was not an isolated incident. Apparently you are too young to remember, I am not. The worst attacks were in France but those were by no means the only ones. One man drove his truck into the lobby of the movie theater. There were other theaters in the US that were subject to arson attacks and one had their movie screen slashed The movie was banned in many countries and here in the South no movie theater dared show it. Even though only one Jew was involved in the production of this movie it gave rise to the most virulent anti-semitic attacks.
Sorry, I was mixing up you and Red Fox.

But people weren't targeted. I do not understand why there is a disconnect. ISIS is not "a few". The Muslims where are attacking Americans on American soil are not "a few". And they aren't even all extremists! Look at Fort Hood. Look at the Boston Marathon. They, and others, and ISIS target people. ISIS slaughters Christians by the tens of thousands merely because they are Christian. ISIS throws gays off the roofs of buildings just because they are gay. ISIS stones women who commit adultery while casting no stones at the men that they commit adultery with. What Christian extremists have brutally murdered any Muslims? You are dreaming if you think you can compare extremist Muslims with Christians of any sort.
 
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smaneck

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Sorry, I was mixing up you and Red Fox.

But people weren't targeted. I do not understand why there is a disconnect. ISIS is not "a few". The Muslims where are attacking Americans on American soil are not "a few". And they aren't even all extremists! Look at Fort Hood. Look at the Boston Marathon. They, and others, and ISIS target people. ISIS

I'm sorry, but if you drive a truck into a theater lobby you are targeting people whether they get hurt or not. And in Paris fourteen people were hurt. There was also tear gas thrown in theaters. Tear gas doesn't target anyone but people. And yes, all the Muslims who have engaged in these attacks were extremists. And as LoveaMuslim points out why do Christians get so little publicity for their own terrorists attacks. Did you hear about this conspiracy to attack and murder all the Muslims in this little village in New York?
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...n-plots-deadly-attack-against-muslims/304937/
And here is the thing, this terrorists was released on bail! Has that happened with any Muslim charged with terrorism?
Domestic terrorism accounts for 74% of the terrorists attack in this country, yet we don't hardly hear about them.
 
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A New Dawn

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I'm sorry, but if you drive a truck into a theater lobby you are targeting people whether they get hurt or not. And in Paris fourteen people were hurt. There was also tear gas thrown in theaters. Tear gas doesn't target anyone but people. And yes, all the Muslims who have engaged in these attacks were extremists. And as LoveaMuslim points out why do Christians get so little publicity for their own terrorists attacks. Did you hear about this conspiracy to attack and murder all the Muslims in this little village in New York?
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...n-plots-deadly-attack-against-muslims/304937/
And here is the thing, this terrorists was released on bail! Has that happened with any Muslim charged with terrorism?
Domestic terrorism accounts for 74% of the terrorists attack in this country, yet we don't hardly hear about them.
Most of the Muslims in the country that attacked Americans weren't charged with terrorism, they were charged with "workplace violence". It's a double standard.

And no one was killed in the theatre that had the molotov cocktails thrown into it, and nobody died from tear gas, and nobody died from the car being driven into the theatre lobby. So tell me, again, how they are so similar? I guess it goes to show that Christians (if they were all Christians) make horrible terrorists. Sheesh.
 
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Hammster

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You seem to be saying then, that people who do not believe your God exists, really believe your God exists, but they are simply denying this existence.

Is this what you are saying?
That's what scripture says. So, yes.
 
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Hammster

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Criteria to be considered a Christian:

1) Must be Trinitarian

2) Must have faith in Christ as Lord God and Savior

3) Must profess the beliefs of the Apostles, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds (either by professing the creeds or agreeing with the tenets).
Wrong.

1. Must be born again.

Anything after that is evidence of 1..
 
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PaladinValer

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LOL. I thought you were asking me for evidence that the term does not appear until the end of the second century.

I see no point in laughing.

In any case, St. Ignatius never uses the term Trinity.

Non-use of the word doesn't mean non-portrayal of its theology.

I believe Tertullian was the first, though some would say the concept was first articulated by Valentius "The Father uncovers his bosom, which is the Holy Spirit, revealing his secret. His secret is his Son!" (Valentinus. Gospel of Truth. Verse 17. English translation by Patterson Brown). Both Tertullian and Valentinus were considered heretics. Valentinus is condemned in Irenaeus. Adversus Haeres. Book III, Chapter 3, Verse 4 and Tertullian articulated his views of the Trinity after he became a Montanist, which was also considered heretical.

See the above; it is why your opinion is wrong.

Tertullian was orthodox before his downfall, and it wasn't due to his Trinitarian theology but due to other things; he was Trinitarian in his orthodox years. Furthermore, Valentinus was heretical due to his Gnosticism. Since actual Trinitarianism declares the material nature of the Incarnation of God the Son, his concept wasn't the same, not to mention that the actual Greek used in the title is natures; in actual Trinitarianism, the three Persons aren't different natures but the same Nature.

Not to mention the fact that it is exceptionally dishonest to say "St. Ignatius never uses the term Trinity" and then bring up Valentinus.

And the first use of the word "Trinity" wasn't by Tertullian. It was by Theophilius, Patriarch of Antioch, who was around earlier.

And we find very Trinitarian writings in St. Ignatius in 110ce in his Letter to the Magnesians and by St. Justin the Martyr a few decades later, in his First Apology. Both of these predate Pheophilius, Tertullian, and, in terms of St. Ignatius, Valentinus (St. Justin the Martyr was very much Valentinus' contemporary; the likely shared the same birth year and the good Saint lived a mere ~5 years longer).
 
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MoreCoffee

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Torah trumps New Testament!! Jews Win!!
In Rabbinic Judaism isn't the Talmud the heart of the religion and the Torah something that cannot be obeyed anyway because there is no temple any more and no animal sacrifices and no priesthood offering sacrifices to YHWH? Isn't the religion more about the traditions of the seventy elders than anything else?
 
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LoAmmi

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In Rabbinic Judaism isn't the Talmud the heart of the religion and the Torah something that cannot be obeyed anyway because there is no temple any more and no animal sacrifices and no priesthood offering sacrifices to YHWH? Isn't the religion more about the traditions of the seventy elders than anything else?

Simple answer is no.
 
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