The Nicene Creed - line by line

Mama Kidogo · Oct 7, 2014

Kylissa said:
I will say that the phrase of being "seated at the right hand of the Father" inspired at least one other question.

Does that presuppose that the Father has a physical form, and has a literal throne in heaven alongside the Son?

Or is that too literal an interpretation?

I don't read it as saying such. now in the book of Revelation we have a bit of a clue as to God the Father being visible to those in His presence at least in the form of light. But the creed does not go as far. It does not speak of the throne as being a large chair as much as symbolic of his authority as does the right hand concerning Christ. But I'm sure many see it both ways and neither view would be against the Creed.
I'd like to have been a fly on the wall at that council as I suspect many desired to get more detailed than what it states. What we have is what they all agreed upon and surely not all the more detailed theories many had and held to closer than theory. I think therein lays the wisdom of a council.

~Anastasia~ · Oct 7, 2014

That was the sense I got from the Scriptures as a whole, that the Father did not have a form/body. Perhaps He has a visible glory but beyond that ... I'm not so sure about speculating.

I think I agree that we ought not make assumptions beyond what we know, at least. It leads into some difficulties in various passages.

Thanks for the replies, I just wondered someone else's take on it.

(FWIW, I was actually taught there was a literal throne and form - but that had me imagining two thrones side-by-side and two men sitting on them, which was where my trouble with envisioning the Trinity began back then.)

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 7, 2014

I think that "ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father" can best be seen in the following verses.
Melchezec is a whole topic in itself ....

Psalm 110:1 The Lord says to my lord,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool.”
2 The Lord sends out from Zion
your mighty scepter.
Rule in the midst of your foes.
3 Your people will offer themselves willingly
on the day you lead your forces
on the holy mountains.
From the womb of the morning,
like dew, your youth will come to you.
4 The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind,
“You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.”
5 The Lord is at your right hand;
he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath.
6 He will execute judgment among the nations,
filling them with corpses;
he will shatter heads
over the wide earth.
7 He will drink from the stream by the path;
therefore he will lift up his head.

Heb 5:5 So also Christ did not glorify himself in becoming a high priest,
but was appointed by the one who said to him,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”;
6 as he says also in another place,
“You are a priest forever,
according to the order of Melchizedek.”

Heb 7:15 It is even more obvious when another priest arises, resembling Melchizedek,
16 one who has become a priest, not through a legal requirement concerning physical descent,
but through the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of him,
“You are a priest forever,
according to the order of Melchizedek.”

~Anastasia~ · Oct 7, 2014

~Cassia~ said:
I think that "ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father" can best be seen in the following verses.
Melchezec is a whole topic in itself .... are links to threads needed?

Thanks, Cassia.

Yes, Melchizedek is a whole topic - and an interesting one. And not one I've studied up on in the past couple of years. I've been thinking for a while of revisiting that topic.

If you're asking if it's ok with me if you link to a thread, then sure, no problem.

BTW, I particularly like your posting of Ps 110 there

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 7, 2014

Kylissa said:
Thanks, Cassia.

Yes, Melchizedek is a whole topic - and an interesting one. And not one I've studied up on in the past couple of years. I've been thinking for a while of revisiting that topic.

If you're asking if it's ok with me if you link to a thread, then sure, no problem.

BTW, I particularly like your posting of Ps 110 there

I'll forgo the links to keep it on topic but that does seem to be a main thread within the bible beginning at Psalm 110 of the lines of the Nicene we're presently looking at.

AnticipateHisComing · Oct 8, 2014

Kylissa said:
I will say that the phrase of being "seated at the right hand of the Father" inspired at least one other question.

Does that presuppose that the Father has a physical form, and has a literal throne in heaven alongside the Son?

Or is that too literal an interpretation?

This is one of many images used in the Bible to convey a heavenly concept just like many parables. Concentrate on the heavenly concept.

When I think of one sitting on a throne, I think of one who issues decrees.
When I think of one at the right of one on a throne, I think of "right hand man", one who effects the decrees.

~Anastasia~ · Oct 8, 2014

AnticipateHisComing said:
This is one of many images used in the Bible to convey a heavenly concept just like many parables. Concentrate on the heavenly concept.

When I think of one sitting on a throne, I think of one who issues decrees.
When I think of one at the right of one on a throne, I think of "right hand man", one who effects the decrees.

Thank you, AnticipateHisComing.

~Anastasia~ · Oct 8, 2014

Moving ahead. Remember, if you missed anything in the past and want to comment on, we're open to anything we've already posted. Thanks for all the great posts!

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead.

Radagast · Oct 11, 2014

Kylissa said:
and is seated at the right hand of the Father

I'm backing up to a past point, but Wikipedia has a really good article in this: Session of Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

~Anastasia~ · Oct 11, 2014

Radagast said:
I'm backing up to a past point, but Wikipedia has a really good article in this: Session of Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you for that, Radagast.

I especially liked this part:

The presence of Messiah at God's right hand means that for His people there was now a way of access to God more immediate and heart-satisfying than the obsolete temple ritual had ever been able to provide.

And while it refers to Christ taking on other postures (sitting having to do with a session in progress, not necessarily physically sitting down) ... I also liked this part:

In the Book of Revelation, Revelation 2:1, on the other hand, Jesus is referred to as walking among the seven golden lampstands. Robert Mounce suggests that since these lampstands represent seven churches, Jesus' motion indicates that he is "present in their midst and aware of their activities."

Of course we do know that Christ is present in the midst of our Churches, and aware of what is going on in them - but the picture/reminder is very precious.

Thanks again for your post!

~Anastasia~ · Oct 11, 2014

Bumping ... we are still here ...

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead.

~Anastasia~ · Oct 11, 2014

And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead.

I am reminded that He came in obscurity, as a baby, born into an animal shed in low circumstance in an insignificant city, coming as the Lamb to be slain for our sakes.

But when He comes again, Christ will come in glory, attended by His Holy Angels, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, coming as the Lion of the tribe of Judah to rule forever.

His first task will be the judgment of mankind. Separating the sheep from the goats, those who are His from those who want no part of Him.

Reflecting, it seems both a wonderful and joyous thought, and at the same time awe-inspiring and terrible (meaning to inspire terror, not awful).

Has the world ever before seen such glory?

Mama Kidogo · Oct 11, 2014

Kylissa said:
And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead.

I am reminded that He came in obscurity, as a baby, born into an animal shed in low circumstance in an insignificant city, coming as the Lamb to be slain for our sakes.

But when He comes again, Christ will come in glory, attended by His Holy Angels, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, coming as the Lion of the tribe of Judah to rule forever.

His first task will be the judgment of mankind. Separating the sheep from the goats, those who are His from those who want no part of Him.

Reflecting, it seems both a wonderful and joyous thought, and at the same time awe-inspiring and terrible (meaning to inspire terror, not awful).

Has the world ever before seen such glory?

This is the hope of a Christian. The reason we keep our wick trimmed and a goodly supply of oil.

Radagast · Oct 11, 2014

Kylissa said:
And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead.

Lincoln Cathedral Choir - Lo, He Comes With Clouds Descending - YouTube
"Lo! He comes with clouds descending,
Once for favoured sinners slain;
Thousand thousand saints attending,
Swell the triumph of His train:
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
God appears on earth to reign.

Every eye shall now behold Him
Robed in dreadful majesty;
Those who set at naught and sold Him,
Pierced and nailed Him to the tree,
Deeply wailing, deeply wailing, deeply wailing,
Shall the true Messiah see.

Every island, sea, and mountain,
Heav’n and earth, shall flee away;
All who hate Him must, confounded,
Hear the trump proclaim the day:
Come to judgement! Come to judgement! Come to judgement!
Come to judgement! Come away!

Now redemption, long expected,
See in solemn pomp appear;
All His saints, by man rejected,
Now shall meet Him in the air:
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
See the day of God appear!

Answer Thine own bride and Spirit,
Hasten, Lord, the general doom!
The new Heav’n and earth t’inherit,
Take Thy pining exiles home:
All creation, all creation, all creation,
Travails! groans! and bids Thee come!

The dear tokens of His passion
Still His dazzling body bears;
Cause of endless exultation
To His ransomed worshippers;
With what rapture, with what rapture, with what rapture
Gaze we on those glorious scars!

Yea, Amen! let all adore Thee,
High on Thine eternal throne;
Saviour, take the power and glory,
Claim the kingdom for Thine own;
O come quickly! O come quickly! O come quickly!
Everlasting God, come down!" -- John Cennick/Charles Wesley, 1752/58

LovebirdsFlying · Oct 11, 2014

MOD HAT ON

Ladies and gentlemen, there has been only a small cleanup. If your post is gone, but you didn't receive notice, it responded to another one that had to be removed. It shouldn't disrupt the flow of the conversation now. Please carry on.

MOD HAT OFF

Tzaousios · Oct 11, 2014

Tzaousios said:
AnticipateHisComing, please see my reply to you in post #282. Thanks.

Bumped for AnticipateHisComing.

Exodus20 · Oct 11, 2014

Kylissa said:
Kindly please do NOT turn this thread into a Catholic Debate. It is about the Nicene Creed, which defines Trinitarian Christians.

Questions are fine, but this is NOT about the Catholic Church.

{ Some folks do not know how to "color within the lines" or "Play nice with others". Keep your eyes open and your wolf repellent on your belt or the Thread will get diverted and/or ruined. }

Kylissa: Thanks for posting a Thread about the "Nicene Creed". It is central to good Christian beliefs. It has been around for centuries and has stood the test of time against all manor of infidels , heretics and cultists. You are correct about it being written to help the fight against Arius and his pals. To this very day there are still folks that follow Arius... Old heresies, thought to be dead and forgotten sadly, often spring back to life. This wonderful condensation of essential Christian beliefs in a small , able to be recited package is beautiful in majesty and genius in brevity !

" ... God of God, Light of Light, , Very God of very god; Begotten , not made; ..."

Exodus20 · Oct 11, 2014

~Cassia~ said:
All biblical references are in common use as seen here

The Nicene Creed

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)v
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

Very good ! Thank you for posting the Creed with the Scripture references !

Exodus20 · Oct 11, 2014

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
One reason why I love the Anglican liturgy so much. During every service one of the Creeds is said, during the Eucharist it's usually the Nicene and during Morning/Evening Prayer it's usually the Apostle's Creed.

Bingo! I was going to suggest that The Thread Starter and another poster ( forgot name the main name : sub name is 'newsie' ) get a copy of "The Book of Common Prayer". Read it at Breakfast or whenever. Play some hymn or organ music softly in the background whilst reading the creeds --- It will improve your whole day !

The 1662 British has all three Creeds in it , and the 1928 American has Apostles & Nicene . I have my 1928 Cambridge leather one within arm reach of the computer. Have a hardback 1662 BOCP and the 1559 BOCP , and my Grandma's little blue hardback 1928., a 'pleather' American edition/ 1893 done by Holman.

You can buy them new on the internet ( Make sure you get the American 1928 edition , or the British 1662 edition. Don't waste your $ on the American 1979 ed.. ) or look at Used book shops , or Thrift stores , etc.. Great God-exalting Theology , wonderful Christology , and IMO , rather good ecclesiology within those pages.

BTW - If you come across an 1941 "Lutheran Worship" hymnal/ liturgy book ... buy it ! It has the 3 Creeds inside of it, and The Lord's Prayer. [ and some decent Hymns --- but not as good as my 1940 Episcopal Hymnal ! ]

{ Sorry . Don't wish to violate the Thread rules. - Not trying to 'sell' books or my opinion/point-of-view on the Thread ... just passing on information about a great compact source of Christian doctrine & worship. You can read the Creeds in the section called "Holy Communion". }

~Anastasia~ · Oct 11, 2014

Exodus20 said:
Bingo! I was going to suggest that The Thread Starter and another poster ( forgot name the main name : sub name is 'newsie' ) get a copy of "The Book of Common Prayer". Read it at Breakfast or whenever. Play some hymn or organ music softly in the background whilst reading the creeds --- It will improve your whole day !

The 1662 British has all three Creeds in it , and the 1928 American has Apostles & Nicene . I have my 1928 Cambridge leather one within arm reach of the computer. Have a hardback 1662 BOCP and the 1559 BOCP , and my Grandma's little blue hardback 1928., a 'pleather' American edition/ 1893 done by Holman.

You can buy them new on the internet ( Make sure you get the American 1928 edition , or the British 1662 edition. Don't waste your $ on the American 1979 ed.. ) or look at Used book shops , or Thrift stores , etc.. Great God-exalting Theology , wonderful Christology , and IMO , rather good ecclesiology within those pages.

BTW - If you come across an 1941 "Lutheran Worship" hymnal/ liturgy book ... buy it ! It has the 3 Creeds inside of it, and The Lord's Prayer. [ and some decent Hymns --- but not as good as my 1940 Episcopal Hymnal ! ]

{ Sorry . Don't wish to violate the Thread rules. - Not trying to 'sell' books or my opinion/point-of-view on the Thread ... just passing on information about a great compact source of Christian doctrine & worship. You can read the Creeds in the section called "Holy Communion". }

Oh, I think you're fine with the book recommendations. Those are always appreciated.

I usually include the Nicene Creed along with a few Psalms in my daily prayers. It is most edifying. I find these things remind me of Who God is and what He has done.

The Nicene Creed - line by line

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