The New Perspective on Paul!

[muffler dragon]

Dear David:

The distinction I was trying to draw in this situation was this:

Many (if not most) Christians say nowadays that under the "New" Covenant that the Law is written upon their hearts. These same people then do not study Torah or care to know anything about it or anything that Y'shua said as far as advocating it. This "written upon the heart" statement tends to allow people to become lazy.

What you say above about moving from the 10 commandments and learning more as the Holy Spirit writes is very much what I believe and the path that I am walking. Little by little, precept upon precept and so forth. But the Law is not written upon my heart yet. I am still having to study. I do not know the Law in its entirity.

That is the distinction I am making.

Shalom,

m.d.

 

[davidoffinland]

Shalom m.d. from Finland. I know what you mean. I felt something was missing from my Luth theological education so many years ago I started to read and study more of the bk of Moses than the NT. I bought couple of different Jewish commentaries at least to see the different thinking that was involved. For example, it took couple of months to go through even Leviticus.
Along with the other books I studied, the NT started to take on new meaning that "now" I could see Yeshua & Paul within 1st CT Judaism and their debates and arguments with the Jewish sects. So more studying was involved...the history and study of parts of the Oral Torah, some of the arguments in Talmud, a bit here and there of Kabbalah etc..
For example in Finland, I have met Jewish believers and one even a rabbi & teacher who has helped in one way to start seeing from their perspectives instead of mine that was done in a exclusive Luth college & Seminary background. Plus during the year in our community there is a monthly meeting of Israeli/Finnish friendships and sometimes there are real good Jewish believers that come through and they talk about "religious" things too.
So now many years later, I am deeply grateful to my Heavenly Father for opening this door to Jewish studies that laid in my heart for a long time before I took this by the "horns" and started to do real serious study. Blessings.

David.

 

[muffler dragon]

Dear David:

It is so pleasing to realize that we are on the same page. Clarification can be so helpful sometimes, eh?

I wanted to make a recommendation to you. I am presently reading the second volume of a three volume set. It is written by Avi ben Mordechai. The series is called: Messiah: Understanding His Life and Teaching in Hebraic Context. Some on this forum like Avi and others hold him at arm's length; so he is not without his controversy. However, for me, I have found his words to wonderfully insightful and I have grown quite a bit.

Should you desire to learn more about him or his books, then feel free to check this site out:

www.m7000.com

Have a very pleasant Thursday, which you've already more than started.

Nathan

 

[Bruce101]

I am new to the "Paul in light of Hebrew thinking" education. I find it fresh and complete. I am still learning quite a bit and find it more realistic to think that the Greek Testament is a continuation of the Tanak, rather than what we are generally taught. That the GT stands by itself.
Bruce

 

[koilias]

Dear David:

Are you under the impression that this has been accomplished? Is the Torah actually written on anyone's heart yet? Do people know it inherently without study? Just some provocative questions.

Shalom,

m.d.

Dear M.D., I agree with your position, but there is a kink in that position, and that kink is spoken about in the parable of the Good Samaritan. From a Hasidic perspective, sometimes it is not required for individuals to actually know the written Torah, sometimes there is a rare individual in the world who already knows Torah in the heart. BUT, let me emphasize (to others here) that they are very rare indeed!

Such individuals do good things to others without thought of reward. They do this because they have deep empathy for their fellow human being, and commune in ways with HaShem which are not known to us. The actions of these rare individuals actually uphold the world! You've probably all heard of the saying that the flapping of a butterfly in Brazil can set off a chain reaction which results in a hurricane in Florida or a mansoon in the Pacific.
The good deeds of these individuals similarly and fantastically keep the world from utter destruction!

 

[sojeru]

Well, my perspective on Hacham Shaul is that he is a Pharisee, a Rabbi, , a sage, an Orthodox Jew of a "sephardic" class.
He taught as all the rabbi's of his time had taught.
And he taught as all the Rabbis after him had taught and teaches, mostly those of sephardic right.
Like the RaMBaM.

 

[visionary]

The importance of Paul comes when you remove his epistles from scripture. You would find that many of the truths that you hold dear, like righteousness by faith no longer have that clear spiritual impact. There are many other things that Paul brought into focus, that with out his insight and inspiration we would have have been blessed to understand things the way that we do today. Think of it, He has given us inspiration that has lasted and sustain the faith for two thousand years, and he still stands out as inspired.

I am also very glad that the understanding of what Paul has written has been placed back in the Jewish perspective so that we may again gain the spiritual significance of what He is truly saying.

Enjoying the insights and comments of all on this thread.

Visionary

 

[Buccaneer]

Paul NEVER taught us to abandon the Torah. He was demostrating that Torah can not and will not save us but faith alone however he distinctly tells us to keep it.

Romans 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.