The new Nihilism

Eschatologist

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When I first saw some gay people parading in a display of what is basically lust of the flesh, I felt tempted to voice my disgust. But there was another voice telling me not to judge or be moved. I feel God was saying don't let these parades push my buttons, and when I looked again it did seem that the spiritual darkness behind these parades was intending to do that. I also thought of how I honestly do not know what it would be like feeling the need to parade around like that, as if it was something to celebrate. I then considered that God is brotherly Love, and I wondered what I would do if any of my family were doing that. My very first answer was I'd be falling on my knees praying for them.

When you say "the west in general" I can't agree or disagree since I've never been outside of my country, but it sounds politically charged. From my experience I've heard very few people describing it as an embrace of diversity, and at the same time I don't like the idea of sweeping it under the rug out of fear of my grandchildren seeing it. On top of that, every gay person I've asked about this tells me that they find the parades disgusting also.

This much I do know, the scriptures teach that homosexuality began when God gave mankind over to the lusts of the flesh and even to reprobate minds, and I think that's what I'm witnessing at these parades. So, I don't see how one can confuse compassion with complicity, because I don't believe a government policy can restore a virtue found only in the power of Christ through faith.
Praying for them is part of the process, so to speak, but voicing disapproval is also part of it. People often misinterpret Matthew 7:1–2 as a prohibition on judging others. It does warn that judgment should be charitable and aimed at guiding others to redemption, however.

The fact that many gay people are disgusted by it should reveal that these activists and hedonists don't even really represent these groups accurately to begin with, which is why the activists should be denounced. Yet, we see so much of society bend to their will.

It is true that government is separate from God, and while a government policy can't restore virtue (as you said), it can certainly limit how much a vice is promoted.
 
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childeye 2

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Praying for them is part of the process, so to speak, but voicing disapproval is also part of it.
I just don't want to voice or rather display disapproval in any way or form that comes off as if the people participating in these parades actually know what they're doing, as if they can help themselves, as if they are celebrating a true freedom, as if I believe I could let myself be like that but choose to abstain. The scriptures tend to paint the mentality of the Pharisees as self-righteous and legalistic blind leaders of the blind who will all fall in a ditch. My actions must reflect the narrative of a Gospel where righteousness is counted as a gift from God, so that it's His grace and goodness that leads a man to repentance.

To further my point, when the Pharisees questioned why Jesus would sit and eat with sinners, I feel the sentiment of that question was insinuative towards Jesus as being pro-sin. To that, Jesus responded by explaining that it is the sick who need a doctor, and that God desires mercy and understanding rather than sacrifice. And this incident is what I would see as an example of a mentality that can confuse being complicit with having compassion.
People often misinterpret Matthew 7:1–2 as a prohibition on judging others. It does warn that judgment should be charitable and aimed at guiding others to redemption, however.
Matthew 7:1-2 is telling me to resist being judgmental because I will be judged according to my judgment of others, which coincides with love others as I would want to be loved, perseverance, longsuffering, return good for evil, love and pray for your enemies, the merciful will receive mercy, turn the other cheek, etc.

But as an internal spiritual battle in maintaining a pure source of humility, I would use Romans 2:1, because it is the summation of Romans 1, which shows me that as a flesh being I am no better than homosexuals. Which is to say that when I show contempt for sinners, I am not esteeming God as God, the Eternal power.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

The fact that many gay people are disgusted by it should reveal that these activists and hedonists don't even really represent these groups accurately to begin with, which is why the activists should be denounced. Yet, we see so much of society bend to their will.
The devil is cunning. As both a tempter and an accuser, he plays both ends against the middle. That's why I believe God was telling me don't let these parades push my buttons. We do not war against flesh and blood but spiritual powers in high places, and these activists should not be recognized as the threat. Denouncing these people/activists in the Name of Christianity will just muddy the waters, the Name of Christ Jesus, and the Gospel in general.

When it comes to sinfulness in mankind, I feel that denouncing or announcing my approval or disapproval in the public arena will only end up promoting the false premise that it should be handled as a matter of public opinion. I think it actually helps the powers of darkness behind these activists, when Christians are moved to react as if God, The Eternal Power, needs to be defended. We should be talking as if we understand what depraved looks like.
It is true that government is separate from God, and while a government policy can't restore virtue (as you said), it can certainly limit how much a vice is promoted.
It seems to me that the writers of the U.S. constitution felt it was wise to acknowledge God, and therefore presumptuous to think government can be given authority to speak for God. I can agree that a government can limit the promotion of vice, but if the impetus is coming from a political spirit of self-righteousness, using terms like sin to subliminally assert God's authority and all opposed as politically pro-sin, then it's not Love and it's not Christ, and I think it will end badly.
 
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Eschatologist

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I just don't want to voice or rather display disapproval in any way or form that comes off as if the people participating in these parades actually know what they're doing, as if they can help themselves, as if they are celebrating a true freedom, as if I believe I could let myself be like that but choose to abstain. The scriptures tend to paint the mentality of the Pharisees as self-righteous and legalistic blind leaders of the blind who will all fall in a ditch. My actions must reflect the narrative of a Gospel where righteousness is counted as a gift from God, so that it's His grace and goodness that leads a man to repentance.

To further my point, when the Pharisees questioned why Jesus would sit and eat with sinners, I feel the sentiment of that question was insinuative towards Jesus as being pro-sin. To that, Jesus responded by explaining that it is the sick who need a doctor, and that God desires mercy and understanding rather than sacrifice. And this incident is what I would see as an example of a mentality that can confuse being complicit with having compassion.
If the actions of these activists only affected adults, I'd agree with you. The scenario changes when you figure in how the LGBT markets these parades and "pride" in general to children. Children are far more easily manipulated than adults, which is why this degeneracy should be kept at the fringes of society.

Matthew 7:1-2 is telling me to resist being judgmental because I will be judged according to my judgment of others, which coincides with love others as I would want to be loved, perseverance, longsuffering, return good for evil, love and pray for your enemies, the merciful will receive mercy, turn the other cheek, etc.

But as an internal spiritual battle in maintaining a pure source of humility, I would use Romans 2:1, because it is the summation of Romans 1, which shows me that as a flesh being I am no better than homosexuals. Which is to say that when I show contempt for sinners, I am not esteeming God as God, the Eternal power.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

We agree that God ultimately is who leads people out of degeneracy, but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that He would prefer we design society in such a way that discourages sin.

The devil is cunning. As both a tempter and an accuser, he plays both ends against the middle. That's why I believe God was telling me don't let these parades push my buttons. We do not war against flesh and blood but spiritual powers in high places, and these activists should not be recognized as the threat. Denouncing these people/activists in the Name of Christianity will just muddy the waters, the Name of Christ Jesus, and the Gospel in general.

When it comes to sinfulness in mankind, I feel that denouncing or announcing my approval or disapproval in the public arena will only end up promoting the false premise that it should be handled as a matter of public opinion. I think it actually helps the powers of darkness behind these activists, when Christians are moved to react as if God, The Eternal Power, needs to be defended. We should be talking as if we understand what depraved looks like.
I'm not saying we should denounce the parades in the name of God but rather in the best interests of society, particularly children. A purely secular person can also recognize that promoting this degeneracy is a net negative for society.

God doesn't need to be defended, but children do.

It seems to me that the writers of the U.S. constitution felt it was wise to acknowledge God, and therefore presumptuous to think government can be given authority to speak for God. I can agree that a government can limit the promotion of vice, but if the impetus is coming from a political spirit of self-righteousness, using terms like sin to subliminally assert God's authority and all opposed as politically pro-sin, then it's not Love and it's not Christ, and I think it will end badly.
I can agree that using any sort of religious rationale for limitations on this degeneracy is a bad idea, both in terms of spirituality and in practical terms. Any push for government action must have a secular reason that is promoted first and foremost, because we have to respect the rights of those with other religious beliefs. We also have to reach a consensus with them, so debating with reason and logic goes much further.
 
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childeye 2

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If the actions of these activists only affected adults, I'd agree with you. The scenario changes when you figure in how the LGBT markets these parades and "pride" in general to children. Children are far more easily manipulated than adults, which is why this degeneracy should be kept at the fringes of society.


We agree that God ultimately is who leads people out of degeneracy, but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that He would prefer we design society in such a way that discourages sin.


I'm not saying we should denounce the parades in the name of God but rather in the best interests of society, particularly children. A purely secular person can also recognize that promoting this degeneracy is a net negative for society.

God doesn't need to be defended, but children do.


I can agree that using any sort of religious rationale for limitations on this degeneracy is a bad idea, both in terms of spirituality and in practical terms. Any push for government action must have a secular reason that is promoted first and foremost, because we have to respect the rights of those with other religious beliefs. We also have to reach a consensus with them, so debating with reason and logic goes much further.
Sorry I took so long to reply, but I've been considering what you're saying. I think we understand one another well enough, and I think we both understand the need to speak in secular terms so as to talk to carnal minded people, and therefore we must choose the right words. To simply denounce the parades is going to invite charges of discrimination and hypocrisy. So, I think we need to educate our children so as to understand the difference between Love and lust.
 
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