The New New Mass

[whitetiger1]

Novus Novus Ordo

Went to Mass and while the Priest used the new translation the congregation had nothing of it. Aside from the creed almost everything was the same in the congregation. We said "and also with you" instead of the new strange sounding thing. Made me feel great!

Some may not like me for this but I do not like the new stuff. I might as well tell poeple that I like Marty Haugen songs, such a bad Catholic is I


Let's start the Novus Ordo XP or NOXP

 

[AMDG]

Some may not like me for this but I do not like the new stuff.

That's probably about how the people felt when the changes of Vatican II hit--and the changes of 1965 (wait a minute, we were told those *were* the changes of Vatican II), and finally the changes in the 1970s (that gave us "And with you" instead of "And with your spirit").

Guess what I'm trying to say is that people will get used to saying "And with your spirit". It's no "biggie".

 

[Eternally Optimistic]

Just left the evening Mass @ my parish...more people than usual! Our parish for the most part seemed okay with the updated translation, the number of "and also with you" dropped as the Mass went on. Nothing earth shattering, same Mass, updated translation! I have to say though I have an inexplicable dislike for the new translation of the Nicene Creed...maybe it's the "I believe" instead of "WE believe"...not sure yet though.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My little parish, made mistakes, but will adjust in time.

At least, by following the card, the pastor no longer bows too early in the Creed.

I wuz gonna tell him about it awhile back, but I let the Holy Spirit correct him.


Jim

 

[Dylan Michael]

A lot of people forgot and it came out as "And also with your Spirit". It'll get fixed with time.

 

[whitetiger1]

That's probably about how the people felt when the changes of Vatican II hit--and the changes of 1965 (wait a minute, we were told those *were* the changes of Vatican II), and finally the changes in the 1970s (that gave us "And with you" instead of "And with your spirit").

Guess what I'm trying to say is that people will get used to saying "And with your spirit". It's no "biggie".

I won't be saying the silly part, this was my last Mass. Looking at the net Catholics I feel like I am sub standard Christian because I like the old way and things like that.

 

[Vasallus]

The new translation is great. Those who hold their breath like little kids and refuse to say the correct words are just silly.

 

[Eternally Optimistic]

I won't be saying the silly part, this was my last Mass. Looking at the net Catholics I feel like I am sub standard Christian because I like the old way and things like that.

I pray you keep going to Mass...it's still the same Mass, just a more acurate translation of the Latin. My priest had a good point tonight on this whole matter, this is an opportunity for us to pray the Mass anew, and hopefully to allow us in learning the new translation to reflect on the prayers more. Same Mass, same Christ, more accurate English translation.

 

[whitetiger1]

It's worse than what was there previously. I know those with a traditional bent hated it but it made sense, we speak American English not Dead Roman Latin. IMHO if we are to have it in the vernacular than we should have that not some silly close to Latin.

Though I know the pendulum will swing back again and the atrocious changes wrought will be dropped I just wonder how long it will take. I am sorry to make you all mad and hate me and think I am a bad Catholic, I just can't stand the new Mass and I guess I am not Traditional. I converted under the new old Mass and now I understand the feelings of the people like the SSPX that feel they got their Mass ripped away from them.

 

[MoonlessNight]

It's worse than what was there previously. I know those with a traditional bent hated it but it made sense, we speak American English not Dead Roman Latin. IMHO if we are to have it in the vernacular than we should have that not some silly close to Latin.

Though I know the pendulum will swing back again and the atrocious changes wrought will be dropped I just wonder how long it will take. I am sorry to make you all mad and hate me and think I am a bad Catholic, I just can't stand the new Mass and I guess I am not Traditional. I converted under the new old Mass and now I understand the feelings of the people like the SSPX that feel they got their Mass ripped away from them.

There's probably a hundred ways to respond to this and I have no idea what the right approach is. I don't want to give the impression that I am attacking you personally, and I know that many ways of responding would carry that tone. I hope that you don't get that impression from this approach.

I think that rather than saying why I think you are mistaken in this position or that, it might be better to first clarify some of your positions. In particular, I am wondering how you see the mass. That is to say, what is the purpose of mass, what are its important features, how tailored to an individual community the mass should be and so on.

I ask this because I honestly am not sure where you are coming from in some of your statements. I could go into argumentation mode attacking statements like calling the new English translation "Dead Roman Latin" but that wouldn't help anyone, since I still wouldn't know where you are coming from and you might see such a post as a personal attack.

 

[FullyMT]

It's worse than what was there previously. I know those with a traditional bent hated it but it made sense, we speak American English not Dead Roman Latin. IMHO if we are to have it in the vernacular than we should have that not some silly close to Latin.

Though I know the pendulum will swing back again and the atrocious changes wrought will be dropped I just wonder how long it will take. I am sorry to make you all mad and hate me and think I am a bad Catholic, I just can't stand the new Mass and I guess I am not Traditional. I converted under the new old Mass and now I understand the feelings of the people like the SSPX that feel they got their Mass ripped away from them.

This is the problem...It was never any person's or group's Mass to begin with. Our worship belongs to God and the bishops have the duty of leading us in worship. They spent 11 years on this, it's not like they didn't take their task seriously. Yes, the responses are awkward right now, but we will get used to them -- High Anglicans who use English in their liturgy say "And with your spirit" fine (I attended a wedding where this was the case). The majority of the prayers the priest says are now more poetic in nature -- he just needs to make sure he practices and studies well before the Mass because the sentences tend to be run-ons. Eventually, the Liturgy will change again, whether that be in another 20, 30, or 400 years (unless the eschaton takes place, of course). But it will still be the liturgy with the same Eucharist.

It is ok to not enjoy the translation right now. Not everybody deals with changes well and these things take time. Please pray for an open mind and spirit and continue studying and praying the liturgy.

 

[Fantine]

The changes are unfortunate, I agree, but Catholicism is so much more than a few ill-constructed, unmusical, unrhythmic phrases.

I had a friend in St. Louis who went back to her original faith when Archbishop Burke replaced Cardinal Rigali. I could certainly understand; she was a choir director, involved with the liturgy on a daily basis, working as an employee in her parish. She had known Cardinal Rigali, had even traveled on a pilgrimage to Italy that he led. I know how hard it must have been...I didn't live there during the Burke years, but I guess I would have stayed Catholic, no matter how hard it would have been, because I didn't have a previous religion to compare it to.

I feel bad, because she was such a good person (as I'm sure you are) and such an asset to her parish (as I'm sure you are.) If she had just been able to hold out a few years, he would have been gone, but she couldn't.

And I can certainly understand, but it makes me sad.

Please don't go.

I'm staying. When you feel you're at the end of your rope with the changes, PM me. I don't like the "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievious fault" part. It makes me visualize old Hassidic rabbis. But then the "Fiddler on the Roof" music starts running through my head, and I think of the inexpressible sorrow and loss in the melody of the descending minor third followed by the descending minor second. And I remember that the Jews had hope in even the darkest of times, and saw beauty (as in the descending minor third followed by the descending minor second) even in the darkest of times, and then I am able to put up with Roman prelates trying to lay guilt trips on us for one sentence a Mass.

 

[GeminiMoon]

It's worse than what was there previously. I know those with a traditional bent hated it but it made sense, we speak American English not Dead Roman Latin. IMHO if we are to have it in the vernacular than we should have that not some silly close to Latin.

Though I know the pendulum will swing back again and the atrocious changes wrought will be dropped I just wonder how long it will take. I am sorry to make you all mad and hate me and think I am a bad Catholic, I just can't stand the new Mass and I guess I am not Traditional. I converted under the new old Mass and now I understand the feelings of the people like the SSPX that feel they got their Mass ripped away from them.

I feel that you are being a little over dramatic here. All that has changed and added are a few words here and there. It's not rocket science and it isn't that much of a huge change. I personally think the change hasn't gone far enough, but I am happy with this for now.

 

[whitetiger1]

Well it's a matter of opinion. Most Net Catholics tend to the Traditional side so most will say it has not gone far enough, I am not one of those I think it never should have happened.

 

[Drax]

It's worse than what was there previously. I know those with a traditional bent hated it but it made sense, we speak American English not Dead Roman Latin. IMHO if we are to have it in the vernacular than we should have that not some silly close to Latin.

Though I know the pendulum will swing back again and the atrocious changes wrought will be dropped I just wonder how long it will take. I am sorry to make you all mad and hate me and think I am a bad Catholic, I just can't stand the new Mass and I guess I am not Traditional. I converted under the new old Mass and now I understand the feelings of the people like the SSPX that feel they got their Mass ripped away from them.

??? It's practically the same text!

 

[GeminiMoon]

Well it's a matter of opinion. Most Net Catholics tend to the Traditional side so most will say it has not gone far enough, I am not one of those I think it never should have happened.

Even so, your dislike for the new translation is beyond silly. It is more or less the same text with a little bit of added words and changes here and there. It's not exactly something that will take a long time to get used to. As much as I love converts, I hate when they become Catholic then try telling us that we shouldn't do this and we should do that. Ergh.

 

[Memento Mori]

Even so, your dislike for the new translation is beyond silly. It is more or less the same text with a little bit of added words and changes here and there. It's not exactly something that will take a long time to get used to. As much as I love converts, I hate when they become Catholic then try telling us that we shouldn't do this and we should do that. Ergh.

Your last statement could easily make a convert feel like a second class citizen.

whitetiger - may your congregation be forgiven for its unnecessary disobedience.

The new translation is meant to be one step closer to liturgical unity by having vernacular translations rely more closely on the Latin meaning. When the Mass was only said in Latin, the words of the Mass had the same meaning all over the world. Pope Benedict wants to restore this liturgical unity by requiring translations to be faithful to the Latin meaning (as opposed to dynamic translations such as the English one that was being used in the US).

I don't want to close your ears to what I'm saying, but you have to know that from an outside perspective, this seems really silly. Saying that you will no longer attend Mass because you don't like the words anymore - that sounds really immature.

 

[Eternally Optimistic]

The changes are unfortunate, I agree, but Catholicism is so much more than a few ill-constructed, unmusical, unrhythmic phrases.

I had a friend in St. Louis who went back to her original faith when Archbishop Burke replaced Cardinal Rigali. I could certainly understand; she was a choir director, involved with the liturgy on a daily basis, working as an employee in her parish. She had known Cardinal Rigali, had even traveled on a pilgrimage to Italy that he led. I know how hard it must have been...I didn't live there during the Burke years, but I guess I would have stayed Catholic, no matter how hard it would have been, because I didn't have a previous religion to compare it to.

I feel bad, because she was such a good person (as I'm sure you are) and such an asset to her parish (as I'm sure you are.) If she had just been able to hold out a few years, he would have been gone, but she couldn't.

And I can certainly understand, but it makes me sad.

Please don't go.

I'm staying. When you feel you're at the end of your rope with the changes, PM me. I don't like the "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievious fault" part. It makes me visualize old Hassidic rabbis. But then the "Fiddler on the Roof" music starts running through my head, and I think of the inexpressible sorrow and loss in the melody of the descending minor third followed by the descending minor second. And I remember that the Jews had hope in even the darkest of times, and saw beauty (as in the descending minor third followed by the descending minor second) even in the darkest of times, and then I am able to put up with Roman prelates trying to lay guilt trips on us for one sentence a Mass.

Rigali may have had his issues, but Burke...less than diplomatic is a very diplomatic way of describing him.

 

[FullyMT]

Well it's a matter of opinion. Most Net Catholics tend to the Traditional side so most will say it has not gone far enough, I am not one of those I think it never should have happened.

Look, I have no desire to go back to a Mass entirely in Latin. I love contemporary music and don't mind guitar, drums, etc, at Mass so long as the singing and playing is actually good. I was rather against the changes at first, but have warmed up to them. And even if I didn't, the Eucharist is the same. Jesus present in the Consecrated Bread and Wine, allowing me to receive Him into my body to be unified to Him and the whole Church. If nothing else, stay for that.

 

[whitetiger1]

Even so, your dislike for the new translation is beyond silly. It is more or less the same text with a little bit of added words and changes here and there. It's not exactly something that will take a long time to get used to. As much as I love converts, I hate when they become Catholic then try telling us that we shouldn't do this and we should do that. Ergh.

Thank you for making converts feel bad. Don't worry I un convert and make you feel better