The New Heavens and the New Earth

Colossians · Sep 15, 2003

"For behold I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered nor come into mind.
Fulfilled: "If any man be in Christ, He is a new Creature, the old is passed away, behold the new is come"
Fulfilled: "Forgetting what is behind, and pressing forward to what lies ahead..."
Fulfilled: "It is no longer I that live, but Christ."
Fulfilled: "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Christ"
Fulfilled: "that we shoud serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

"For behold I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying:
Fulfilled: "But ye have come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem.."
Fulfilled: "I have come that ye might have life, and have it more abundantly"
Fulfilled: "And now come I to Thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves"
Fulfilled: "And the disciples we filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost"
Fulfilled: "And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost
Fulfilled: "these things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full."
Fulfilled: "ye rejoice, with joy unspeakable and full of glory"
Fulfilled: "Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say rejoice"
Fulfilled: "But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

"There shall be no more an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days. For the child shall die a hundred years old"
Fulfilled: "My little children , of whom I travail in birth until Christ be formed in you"
Fulfilled: "And she brought forth man a child .. and her child was caught up to God"
Fulfilled: "Till we come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro....But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into Him in all things, which is the Head, even Christ."
Fulfilled: "When I became a man, I put away childish things"
Fulfilled: "That after preaching to others, I myself should not be disqualified"
Fulfilled: "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race..."
Fulfilled: "and I should lose none of them, except the son of perdition"
Fulfilled: "I am pursuaded that He is able to perform that which He has promised"
Fulfilled: "Now unto Him, who is able to keep you from falling, and present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy"
Fulfilled: "He that endures to the end shall be saved" ..."we are pursuaded of better things concerning you, things accompanying salvation"
Fulfilled: "and the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom"

"but the sinner being a hundred years old shall be accursed"
Fulfilled: "do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrits do.. they have their reward
Fufilled: "even as there shall be false teachers among you....But chiefly them that walk after the flesh... presumptuous and self-willed...cursed children...which have forsaken the right way .. for it had been better for them, if they had not known the way of righteousness... the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.."
Fulfilled: "Alexander the copper smith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works"
Fulfilled: "and begin to say.. I shall build a bigger barn.. thou fool, tonight thy soul will be require to thee"
Fulfilled: "a little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked"
Fulfilled: "be not thou afraid when one is made rich, for when he dieth..his glory shall not descend after him"

"And they shall build houses and inhabit them, they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit, they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my
people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands"
Fulfilled: "Blessed are those that die in the Lord from now on, for their works do follow them"
Fulfilled: "Ye shall reap what ye sow"
Fufilled: "and my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches in glory"
Fufilled: "if any mans work abide which he hath built there upon, he shall receive a reward"
Fufilled: "the wise man built his house upon the rock"
Fulfilled: "in 3 days I will raise it up again"
Fulfilled: "ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house"
Fulfilled: "but the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, gentleness...against such there is no law"
Fulfilled: "one waters, another sows, but God gives the increase"
Fulfilled: "He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him"
Fulfilled: "Blessed is the man who endureth temptation.. he shall receive the crown of life"
Fulfilled: "therefore my beloved.. my joy and my crown"
Fulfilled: "He that overcometh I shall give to eat of the tree of life"
Fulfilled: "I am the vine and ye are the branches"

"They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
Fufilled: "my children, of whom I travail until Christ be formed in you"
Fulfilled: "the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy ....self control.."
Fulfilled: "but wisdom is justified of all her children"
Fulfilled: "give and it shall be given unto you...pressed down and shaken together shall men give into your bosom"
Fulfilled: "but the children of the promise are counted for the seed"
Fulfilled: "that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God without rebuke..that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain"

"And it shall come to pass that before they call I will answer, and while they are yet speaking I will hear"
Fulfilled: "then the Lord spake to Paul.. be not afraid, for I have much people in this city"
Fufilled: "your heavenly father knows ye have need of these things"
Fufilled: "behold the feet of them that carried your husband out ..shall carry thee out"
fulfilled: "pray for me that when I open my mouth, utterance may be given to me"
Fufilled: "do not worry what ye shall say, for I will give you the words to speak"
fufilled: "whatsoever ye ask, believing, ye shall receive"
Fufillled: "And there came a voice.. arise and eat, But Peter said "not so Lord...while Peter thought on the vision.. the Spirit said "behold 3 men seek thee, arise and get thee down, for I have sent them""
Fulfilled: "and ye shall find there a donkey, and the foal of an donkey
Fulfilled: "and Paul and Silas sang praises unto God,..and the prisoners heard them.. and immediately the doors were opened and everyone's bands were loosed"

"The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not
hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.
Fulfilled: "and ye have come to mount Zion the city of the living God"
Fulfilled: "Be diligent to preserve the bond of unity"
fufilled: "Render not evil for evil"
Fulfilled: "Love takes no account of wrong suffered"
Fulfilled: "put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness"
Fulfilled: Acts: "and the contention was so sharp between them.. and so Barnabas took Mark", (Paul later):"Take Mark, and bring him with thee"

Welcome to the New Heavens and the New Earth.
They are beautiful, and they are Jesus Christ.

"In Christ Jesus ALL the Promises of God are Yea and in Him AMEN."
"Think not that I came to destroy the law and the PROPHETS, I came not to destroy, but to fufill"

"Fulfill": "to bring into consummation" (Concise Oxford Dictionary)

bjh · Sep 15, 2003

Doesn't this fall in the realm of an Eschatological issue?
However, since you post it here, let's examine your points in light of Scripture.
1) We wait for new heavens and a new earth. (2 Peter 3:13) Unfulfilled
3-4) In your analysis, you mention nothing about age. Unfulfilled
5) "One sows, another reaps" (John 4:37)

1 Peter 5:8, "Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."

Colossians · Sep 15, 2003

Bjh,

Perhaps some people's New Heavens and New Earth belongs in eschatology, mine doesn't. For it is in Christ fulfilled, as are all the prophets, and Christ is not delimited by time.

Just as the law is broken completely by one transgression, of similar principle is the understanding of the New Heavens and the New Earth: if any of its attributes exist to any degree, then where they do exist, is where they are, and proof of their existence.
Such attributes are found in Christ, about whom all of existence is concerned, for "in Him all things consist".

What you are looking for is exhaustiveness with regard to your experience of them. But whether you perceive or experience them exhaustively or comprehensively in your humanity is not the deciding factor as to their existence. They are a spiritual creation, for they are created not for the flesh of men, but for the spirits of men.

The principle is that to the extent that the attributes are experienced, that extent exists 100% within the New Heavens and the New Earth.The simple reason for perceived exceptions is: "for we know in part,... but when the perfect shall come, the partial shall be done away with".

The New Heavens and the New Earth are complete by decree, as is our being seated in heavenly places (we are not told we are seated partially in heavenly places, but fully.) It is the experience of them which is partial.

The 2 Peter 3:13 verse does not say "wait", but "look" (this is the problem with modern versions of the bible: they interpret rather than translate). Its sense is of a continual looking, a continual perceiving, which will culminate in the veil of the flesh being taken away, resulting in a full seeing.
It is not speaking merely of a looking forward, but a looking forward based upon what one is already seeing of it. And this is how we are to understand Christ's fulfillment of prophecy, for as He says of Himself, "who was, and is, and is to come".

"We look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein righteousness dwells". Christ has no competition with regard to His patent on, and possession of, righteousness. All righteousness comes from Him, is in Him, and is retained within His Person. It can never be simply righteous activity, never extraneous to Christ Jesus: they are one and the same.

Christ is become all things.

bjh · Sep 15, 2003

Colossians said:
Bjh,
The 2 Peter 3:13 verse does not say "wait", but "look" (this is the problem with modern versions of the bible: they interpret rather than translate). Its sense is of a continual looking, a continual perceiving, which will culminate in the veil of the flesh being taken away, resulting in a full seeing.
It is not speaking merely of a looking forward, but a looking forward based upon what one is already seeing of it. And this is how we are to understand Christ's fulfillment of prophecy, for as He says of Himself, "who was, and is, and is to come".

"We look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein righteousness dwells". Christ has no competition with regard to His patent on, and possession of, righteousness. All righteousness comes from Him, is in Him, and is retained within His Person. It can never be simply righteous activity, never extraneous to Christ Jesus: they are one and the same.

Christ is become all things.

Why was Peter still looking for or expecting (prosdokomen) something that you say was already in existence? In other words why not say "heurekamen" "We found it"? When we find our car keys in our jacket pocket (or, for any ladies out there, "the dress purse") we don't keep looking for them, do we? Of course not.

The reason Peter is continually looking or expecting is because the new heavens and new earth were still coming, just like the day of God is yet to come. (Note that the same Greek word is used in verse 12.)

Is there any example (other than what you say about v. 13) where prosdokao is used for something that has already happened, or what we already have?

Colossians · Sep 15, 2003

bjh,

Your analysis is austere, and does not allow scripture to interpret scripture. In line with this, it is disregarding of the first 5 paragraphs of my reply to you.

If your "word studies" revelation is from the Holy Spirit, please explain why a non-believer could reproduce the exact same result you have, with the exact same method.

Theology is not about word studies: that is the job of the linguist. It is about letting scripture interpret scripture under the revelation of the Holy Spirit, with the sole focus, intent, and outcome on glorifying the work at Calvary.

Anybody can use the bible like a foreign language script. That doesn't mean he is "comparing spirititual things with spiritual". It means he can read.

bjh · Sep 15, 2003

First, let me thank you for acknowledging that I can read.

As to your remark about word studies, theology is very much about word studies. E. g., what does "propitiation" mean? Well, how is it used? That's theology; that's a word study.

You, yourself, made a comment about a particular word. I was just checking your comment in light of what Scripture says.

Remember, let Scripture interpret Scripture. Back to the original topic, the New Heavens and New Earth take place sometime after the events of Rev. 2-3. Why? They take place after Rev. 4:1. Or as Rev 1:18 says, "the things which shall take place after these things."

You see, my theology does let Scripture interpret Scripture. That's why I directed you to the verses surrounding 2 Peter 3:13. The immediate context of the verse helps to understand it.

Really, why take the "Sausage" or "Lottery Machine" approach to scripture where we take a verse here and a verse from over there and then blend them together to come up with something totally unintended? Anybody can do that.

More importantly, why do it when the immediate context of the verse clearly explains, and helps us to understand, the verse in question?

Colossians · Sep 16, 2003

bjh,

As to your remark about word studies, theology is very much about word studies. E. g., what does "propitiation" mean? Well, how is it used? That's theology; that's a word study.
Yes it's a word study, but not theology. As I asked, if it is theology from the Lord, then how is it that a non-believer can arrive at the same result as you, through the same process, when 1 Cor 2 tells us "the natural man comprehends not the things of the Spirit, neither can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned".

You, yourself, made a comment about a particular word. I was just checking your comment in light of what Scripture says.
No, you were looking up a dictionary.

Remember, let Scripture interpret Scripture.
And that is what my opener does. Your reply recites a dictionary. You have not contextualised 2 Peter 3:13 as you said you have. All you did was refer to another word in Verse 12. To let scripture interpret scripture is not primarily to find similar occurences of words, and esp not in the same vicinity. It is not even really about context. It is about the superimposition of scriptures over the top of one another across the spectrum of the bible, from Gen to Rev.
It is you who have ignored such process exemplified via the multiplicity of scriptures I have posted in my opener which interpret Isaiah 65.

Back to the original topic, the New Heavens and New Earth take place sometime after the events of Rev. 2-3. Why? They take place after Rev. 4:1. Or as Rev 1:18 says, "the things which shall take place after these things."
It is verse 19. And it says also "the things which are". Which is exactly in accord with my second post: a looking at what is now, with a view to the full revealing of it in the future.

You see, my theology does let Scripture interpret Scripture. That's why I directed you to the verses surrounding 2 Peter 3:13.
No you didn't. You directed us to another occurence of a word.

Your approach fails to want to discover the glory of Christ's finished work now but simply holds a microscope over words. The legalists love to do that too, esp for definitions of "sabbath" and "day", etc, as though spiritual knowledge can be arrived at simply by exactingly stringent reductionistic approaches, as any non-believer can do, and as many non-believer theologians in our universities do do.

To give you an example of NT scripture interpreting NT scripture
If you turn to Heb 12:26-28, you will find we are told that the physical realm will disappear, so that what remains will be evident. Note then that what remains, in order for it to be deemed to have remained, must first of all be there. This confirms the physical dissolution described in 2 Peter 3, viz. that the physical destruction wiill be complete, and final, and not result in a revamped earth as some with carnal eyes suggest.
And it confirms what I have said: that the New Heavens and the New Earth exist behind the scenes now, for they are that which will remain when all is destroyed.
And what scripture then interprets just what it is that remains? "I am the alpha and Omega", "the ancient of days", "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever".

"that in all things HE might have the preeminence" Col 1:18

bjh · Sep 16, 2003

I'm tired of playing the "Yes, I did. No I didn't." game.

It's obvious that we're not seeing eye-to-eye on this. We could probably go back and forth on this until the Lord returns, and still not come to an agreement.

You keep saying that a "natural man" or an unbeliever can arrive at the same result I have. So, if that is the case, what unbeliever has come up with the result that I have?

Okay, maybe I did direct you to another occurence of a word. The ironic thing is that the verses I pointed to have a direct bearing on the issue.

"looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God." A yet future event. How do I know? "The heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat."

So if the heavens will be destroyed by burning, what then? "We are looking for a new heavens and a new earth." Something new is coming that will replace the present heaven and earth.

As I've already hinted at, these are my closing arguments. The floor is yours.

-- B. J. H.--

Achichem · Sep 16, 2003

I so can not believe you are saying this,

Ok, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and try and just see where you are coming from.

Please answer a simple question:

Why was revelation written after Christ, if it was fulfilled in Christ?

then I will respond ponit to ponit.

look · Sep 16, 2003

Colossians said:
If you turn to Heb 12:26-28, you will find we are told that the physical realm will disappear

Um, where does it actually state that?

Colossians · Sep 18, 2003

bjh,

You keep saying that a "natural man" or an unbeliever can arrive at the same result I have. So, if that is the case, what unbeliever has come up with the result that I have?
The point is not whether he has, it is that he can, for the method you are using is simply linguistic in nature. I don't have to provide a name and phone number. Simply call the theology dept of your local Uni.

So if the heavens will be destroyed by burning, what then? "We are looking for a new heavens and a new earth." Something new is coming that will replace the present heaven and earth.
It does not say "are looking", but "look".
As to your "what then?", Heb 12:26-28 tells us that the non-made things will remain. Therefore they are present before the dissolution of the physical realm. This point I made in the prev post - a point you have not acknowledged.

Christ is become all things.

Colossians · Sep 18, 2003

Look,

Originally Posted By: Colossians
If you turn to Heb 12:26-28, you will find we are told that the physical realm will disappear

Um, where does it actually state that?
Um, in Heb 12:26-28.

Philip · Sep 18, 2003

Colossians said:
If your "word studies" revelation is from the Holy Spirit, please explain why a non-believer could reproduce the exact same result you have, with the exact same method.

How is it that this comment applies to bjh but not to you?

bjh · Sep 18, 2003

Colossians said:
bjh,
You keep saying that a "natural man" or an unbeliever can arrive at the same result I have. So, if that is the case, what unbeliever has come up with the result that I have?
The point is not whether he has, it is that he can, for the method you are using is simply linguistic in nature. I don't have to provide a name and phone number. Simply call the theology dept of your local Uni.

My point was that if you assume that an unbeliever can arrive at my result, what makes mine natural and yours spiritual?

Colossians said:
So if the heavens will be destroyed by burning, what then? "We are looking for a new heavens and a new earth." Something new is coming that will replace the present heaven and earth.
It does not say "are looking", but "look".
As to your "what then?", Heb 12:26-28 tells us that the non-made things will remain. Therefore they are present before the dissolution of the physical realm. This point I made in the prev post - a point you have not acknowledged.
Christ is become all things.

1) I guess it all depends on what you consider "non-made". We might be talking about the "not man-made" things. We might be talking about the "not God-made" or "uncreated" things. If it is the latter, then only the uncreated is left, i.e., God, and there is no eternal life for anybody else. To be honest, I don't think you've made your point well enough.

If, on the other hand, we are talking about the non-man-made things. God can very easily create a new heaven and a new earth after the present heaven and earth are destroyed.

2) The NAS says "we are looking" (2 Pet. 3:13). Either way, they mean the same thing. If you would accept a linguistic response to your linguistic remark, the form of the verb translated "we look" in the KJV is the 1st person, plural, present, active, indicative. Basically what that means is the word could be translated either "We look" or "we are looking".

Achichem · Sep 18, 2003

Ok I have looked over your post in detail,

First I must ask that you post where you get things, I am afraid we do not all have your gift for knowing the bible by heart.

Isaiah 65:17-25, NKJV:

"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.

"No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labour in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.

"It shall come to pass
That before they call, I will answer;
And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
The lion shall eat straw like the ox,
And dust shall be the serpent's food.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,"
Says the LORD.

Note the similarity to this, which is what I thought you were referring:

Revelation 21:1-4, NKJV:

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

So if you want to clam we (all the world) are a new, please then answer my question:

How can Yeshua have fulfilled a prophecy, written 52-62 years after his death and resurrection?

Also note that for a new earth, we will need and end to an age.

Matthew 24:3-14, NKJV:

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, "I am the Christ, and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

God bless,
Datsar

Mounts · Sep 18, 2003

Good defense Datsar. Colossians, you are bringing in strange and foreign doctrine to the early church--if what you said was true, why didn't Paul or any of the epistles talk about this new Heaven and earth already taking place, but rather said, in hope, that it would take place. When were the Revelation prophocies fulfilled??

This world as of now is the new world? What a horrible and wicked place this is! When did Christ reign for 1000 years? When did the battle of Armageddon take place? Where is the miles of blood up to the horses bridle? When did the rapture take place?

No. We Christians are watching and waiting for the glorious return of Christ.

Colossians · Sep 19, 2003

bjh,

1) I guess it all depends on what you consider "non-made". We might be talking about the "not man-made" things. We might be talking about the "not God-made" or "uncreated" things.
The default of any set of things when mentioned is always the full set of it.
If we were told God will remove automobiles, we do not then wonder whether that only means "Toyotas". The meaning is clear, it means "anything that is made". It is witness to 2 Peter 3.

And it is contrasted with the spiritual kingdom we have received: that which does not conform to physical constraints, and accordingly about which v28 informs us "cannot be moved". For this Kingdom is in fact Christ the Rock, who is become all things.

Colossians · Sep 19, 2003

Datsar,

I requote a small section of your quote of Isaiah's New Heavens and New Earth.

For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
Please explain in terms of your scheme of things, why on the New Heavens and the New Earth:
1. Sinners will exist.
2. Why such sinners will sometimes live to 100 years old.
3. Why people will have sex and babies.
4. Why death will exist.

Approps then would be a conclusion as to how these new heavens and new earth are any better than the current, and whether we will eventually need a new New Heavens and a new New Earth.

Achichem · Sep 19, 2003

Certainly a good question Colossians,

I would appreciate it if you could answer my question.

For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.

1. Sinners will exist.
Not for long.

Revelation 21:8, NKJV:
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Revelation 21:27,NKJV:
But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life

2. Why such sinners will sometimes live to 100 years old.
Note what comes before the line:

"No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;

3. Why people will have sex and babies.
I ask you why not:

Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.

4. Why death will exist.
Not death, second death, burned out of existence, and it wil not for those who live in the new Jerusalem.

In case you did not notice it is likely a part to stress the fact that

"No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;

Approps then would be a conclusion as to how these new heavens and new earth are any better than the current, and whether we will eventually need a new New Heavens and a new New Earth.

LOL,LOL,LOL, Sorry but that is a really funny statement to me.

I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;

For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labour in vain,

But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.

"It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

"Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.

Note this is eternal life:
They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,

God Bless,
Datsar

Colossians · Sep 19, 2003

Datsar,

1. Sinners will exist.
Not for long.
Why on a new earth?

3. Why people will have sex and babies.
I ask you why not:
Why on a new earth?

4. Why death will exist.
Not death, second death, burned out of existence, and it wil not for those who live in the new Jerusalem.
Speaks quite plainly about the death of human beings, and not this your SDA anihilation doctrine.

Approps then would be a conclusion as to how these new heavens and new earth are any better than the current, and whether we will eventually need a new New Heavens and a new New Earth.
LOL,LOL,LOL, Sorry but that is a really funny statement to me.
Not as funny as your evasion of it.

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