The Need to Speak in Tongues at Home

Presbyterian Continuist

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If I am reading your post correctly, the account that I provided with the Spanish speaking Believer actually happend within a Pentecostal prayer meeting that he and I were attending during the mid 90's.
Your account is entirely different to someone speaking in a tongues language they had never learned and speaking blasphemy. This didn't seem to have happened with the Spanish believer, whom I think was pretending to speak in tongues to save embarrassment. This is a sad indictment on that church in a way to make a person who cannot speak in tongues inferior and ashamed. I think it comes out of shonky teaching about tongues which involves demanding that everyone speaks in tongues to have any sort of relationship with God.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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The problem with this approach is that I have heard of bank robbers who apologise after stealing from each bank that they rob, where they continue to steal and then apologise. As for Bentley I seriously doubt if he has an honest bone in his body. If he had any sense of shame he would acknowledge his many sins and leave the ministry and get a job away from Christian service - then we could all move on.
To be honest, I did view one of his messages on Youtube and wasn't very impressed with some of his antics. He seemed quite shallow to me, and seemed to be more involved in showmanship antics than preaching anything of real substance. I watched 10 minutes of it and clicked away to Spike Jones and the City Slickers, which I found more edifying and more to my taste.
 
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Biblicist

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Your account is entirely different to someone speaking in a tongues language they had never learned and speaking blasphemy. This didn't seem to have happened with the Spanish believer, whom I think was pretending to speak in tongues to save embarrassment. This is a sad indictment on that church in a way to make a person who cannot speak in tongues inferior and ashamed. I think it comes out of shonky teaching about tongues which involves demanding that everyone speaks in tongues to have any sort of relationship with God.
Yes, I was about to say in my previous post that I had a few mixed emotions at the time, where I understandably felt for the dilemma that he was in; on the one hand, from memory he had been prayed for on numerous occasions to be able to pray in the Spirit and here he was feeling awkward and deciding to pray in his native language during times of corporate praise and worship, though he was not attempting to provide a message in Spanish (as per tongues), then there was the problem or issue with him feeling that he had to pretend to be able to pray in the Spirit so that he could "fit in"as such.

When I encounter people who seem to struggle to be able to pray in the Spirit, I tend to believe that it could be a Western thing where we allow our minds to override the Spirit, not that he was lacking in spirituality, but for some unknown reason we tend to let our thoughts get in the way of the Spirit.
 
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Biblicist

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To be honest, I did view one of his messages on Youtube and wasn't very impressed with some of his antics. He seemed quite shallow to me, and seemed to be more involved in showmanship antics than preaching anything of real substance. I watched 10 minutes of it and clicked away to Spike Jones and the City Slickers, which I found more edifying and more to my taste.
As much as Bentley is probably a "pin-up boy" for all that is wrong within the contemporary church, be it Continuist or cessationist, where our culture often deems popularity and showmanship to be more important than substance, your earlier points that we need to guard ourselves against falling into unbridled gossip are still valid.

With the situation that I referred to in Scotland, when I came across the articles on this particular person I actually just stared at the first report with a degree of despondency as I struggled to comprehend how such a senior and well known individual (a cessationist) could go down the pathway that he had chosen; though obviously he still felt an incredible amount of guilt for his actions which placed him in the situation where he falsely believed that suicide was the only viable option.
 
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With the situation that I referred to in Scotland, when I came across the articles on this particular person I actually just stared at the first report with a degree of despondency as I struggled to comprehend how such a senior and well known individual (a cessationist) could go down the pathway that he had chosen; though obviously he still felt an incredible amount of guilt for his actions which placed him in the situation where he falsely believed that suicide was the only viable option.
In his Lectures to Students, Charles Spurgeon said right at the outset that if there was anything the students could do other than go into the ministry, go and do it, because the ministry is the most difficult occupation one could have. I think that the experiences of ministers committing suicide, having nervous breakdowns and quitting the ministry through burnout supports his comments.
 
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Episaw

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But, we know that the devil can deceive so easily!
What has this got to do with what I said?

We know there are false teachers out there but that does not mean I follow them.

We know there are false prophets out there but that does not mean I follow them.

Did you know that fear is the darkroom where you develop your negatives?

Yes he can deceive but he cannot deceive the elect. God elected me so I cannot be deceived but if I can be, then God is a liar.
 
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What has this got to do with what I said?

We know there are false teachers out there but that does not mean I follow them.

We know there are false prophets out there but that does not mean I follow them.

Did you know that fear is the darkroom where you develop your negatives?

Yes he can deceive but he cannot deceive the elect. God elected me so I cannot be deceived but if I can be, then God is a liar.
Peter was aware of the devil's attempts to deceive believers. That is why he said that the devil goes around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). In reality, the devil deceived Arius, who was a church elder and a believer. The ones who started the Gnostic movement were believers who were deceived. The deception comes when believer step away from the fellowship of other believers who may have been able to give correction. There is safety in a fellowship. Joseph Smith walked away from the Church and then got deceived, and everyone knows the outcome of that. A guy called Russell lost confidence in his church, walked away from it, and ended up getting deceived and started his own religion. Every pseudo-christian cult started with someone who moved away from the safety of a good fellowship, became isolated and then was picked off by the devil. In the Atlantic battle in World War two, ship were relatively safe in the convoy, but when a ship slowed down for whatever reason and dropped back and became isolated, it became an easy target for the German uboats. The scripture says that there is safety in the multitude of counsellors, not that these ones control us but that there is a safety in being able to check our views and opinions with others who might have a different perception of things.
 
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Episaw

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Peter was aware of the devil's attempts to deceive believers. That is why he said that the devil goes around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). In reality, the devil deceived Arius, who was a church elder and a believer. The ones who started the Gnostic movement were believers who were deceived. The deception comes when believer step away from the fellowship of other believers who may have been able to give correction. There is safety in a fellowship. Joseph Smith walked away from the Church and then got deceived, and everyone knows the outcome of that. A guy called Russell lost confidence in his church, walked away from it, and ended up getting deceived and started his own religion. Every pseudo-christian cult started with someone who moved away from the safety of a good fellowship, became isolated and then was picked off by the devil. In the Atlantic battle in World War two, ship were relatively safe in the convoy, but when a ship slowed down for whatever reason and dropped back and became isolated, it became an easy target for the German uboats. The scripture says that there is safety in the multitude of counsellors, not that these ones control us but that there is a safety in being able to check our views and opinions with others who might have a different perception of things.
Very nice but irrelevant to most of what I said.
 
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Episaw

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I think it is quite relevant to the thread as a whole.
That as maybe, but your response was a reply to what I said. You were not addressing the topic as a whole. If you were, you would not have prefaced your remarks with my remarks.
 
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What has this got to do with what I said?

We know there are false teachers out there but that does not mean I follow them.

We know there are false prophets out there but that does not mean I follow them.

Did you know that fear is the darkroom where you develop your negatives?

Yes he can deceive but he cannot deceive the elect. God elected me so I cannot be deceived but if I can be, then God is a liar.
I went back to this post to reacquaint myself with what you actually said. You are correct. Even though the Elect could be deceived, it doesn't mean that they are on a routine basis. So you are correct about that.

There are instructions in Philippians about what we should think about. Your comment about the darkroom fits right in with that. If we become obsessed with false teachers and apostles and spend more time thinking about them instead of thinking about the good, praise worthy, lovely and things of good report, then we do find ourselves in the darkroom,
 
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Joh 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

new test command...eg :Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Corinthians mentioned ,is how to operate "IN THE CHURCH" (the people not a building)
Jesus already told you to pray in private !

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.

he goes on to show how a church is correctly operated..no more than 3..tounges,then corresponding interpretation, no more than 3 prophecy ;ALL done decent and in order !! still done the same today !

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

this is the first identifier that a person has received the Holy Spirit...

Jesus said..
mark 16v17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

not those who do there own ways no matter how zealous after there own ideas (same happened to Israel ) !! package deal all of them.

Eg of how the church began and still does...Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Ac 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (even Mary mother of Jesus )

Acts 10v45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19v5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

even a con-artist (magician etc) was willing to pay !!! he saw and heard !!!!

acts 8v14 ¶ Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

just sign a card !!?? give heart lungs etc to the Lord !!?? its do it Gods way or make up your own easter bunny religious idea !!

Repent (babys cant ) be baptised (full immersion) ask God for his spirit to receive...for the promise is unto you,your children...……….







and will post here again !
 
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I think we need to be careful not to read things into the text of the New Testament what is not there, and not to ignore what actually is there.

The reality is that speaking and praying in tongues is not a mystery to those who do it. They know what it and why they pray that way. They know it is a language they don't understand, but they are confident that God understands what they are saying.

Also, they speak it in faith, deliberately using expressive and articulate words and phrases to express what is in their hearts to God. They know that "spontaneous" tongues that comes in a way that it is not under their direct control is not of faith, because faith requires deliberate action in the basis of God's Word on the matter.

At the start, when a person believes it is God's will, from their reading of Scripture, there is some uncertainty about how to actually get started, mainly because it is quite a different and somewhat strange way of communicating with God. When we do something in faith that is not akin to our logical thinking, it does take some courage and boldness, so we need to be totally sure that what we are doing is consistent with what the Scripture actually says - not what some have read into it, or ignored what is actually written.

A person starting out may think he is making the language up, and in effect that is what he is doing - but he is doing it in faith based on what he sees in the Scripture. It comes down to a matter what he believes he is doing - speaking in tongues to God, or just making up gibberish. What actually happens when a person starts speaking in faith, the language becomes fluent and it flows out of him and so the sense that he is making it all up diminishes because he knows that the way the language is flowing through him, he couldn't be making it up that fast. And it is that sense of flow from his heart to God that indicates that he is actually praying in the Spirit.

Those ones who oppose the speaking in tongues are those who have either read their own opinion into the text, or ignored what is actually there because it doesn't fit their pre-conceived view, or they have seen such abuse of it that they are put off even considering finding out whether it is God's will for them or not.

These are my views, and I am not really open to debating them with anyone. So people can take it or leave it - their choice.
 
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