The Need to interpret the Genesis creation account literally.

[trophy33]

Have you guys seen Ben Stanhope's review of the creation museum?

Yes, I saw his video before.

 

[trophy33]

Except for the fact that I’ve already shown you numerous times that the Hebrew word translated to “firmament” in the KJV is also translated as “expanse” in more recent translations because the word is included in the definition given in Strong’s Concordance. So you’re presenting these verses as evidence that a literal interpretation supports a flat earth even tho they actually don’t and you already know this. We just had this exact conversation last week.

You saying something is not making it so. Just having such conversation before does not mean I must accept your beliefs or explanations.

And as I said before, even if you translate it as an expanse, it wont help you in any way. You will still get just an expanse between two waters and the sun, the moon and the stars in it. And no, its not the outer space, that would be a huuuge eisegesis and dismissing the biblical context

 

[trophy33]

Why are YEC believers considered to be extremists?

Why are the flat earthers or the KJV onlyists? Because its extreme.

 

[Job 33:6]

You saying something is not making it so. Just having such conversation before does not mean I must accept your beliefs.

And as I said before, even if you translate it as an expanse, it wont help you in any way. You will still get just an expanse between two waters and the sun, the moon and the stars in it. And no, its not the outer space, that would be a huuuge eisegesis and dismissing the biblical context

I tend to think of it as a solid expanse. Kind of like a balloon blown up in the midst of the waters. With solid outer boundaries. The expanse being similar to the Egyptian God shu, or air. But the boundaries, Geb and Nut being solid.

If we look at the realms of Genesis says 1-3 and then look at the inhabitants of 4-6, the birds and fish are said to be brought forth in parallel to the raqia, meaning that a balloon expanse with solid boundaries would encompass both the birds that fly across the face of the dome (above) and the fish that swim across the face of the dome (below). Heaven above and earth below. An air bubble in the midst of the waters.

 

[trophy33]

I tend to think of it as a solid expanse. Kind of like a balloon blown up in the midst of the waters. With solid outer boundaries. The expanse being similar to the Egyptian God shu, or air. But the boundaries, Geb and Nut being solid.

If we look at the realms of Genesis says 1-3 and then look at the inhabitants of 4-6, the birds and fish are said to be brought forth in parallel to the raqia, meaning that a balloon expanse with solid boundaries would encompass both the birds that fly across the face of the dome (above) and the fish that swim across the face of the dome (below). Heaven above and earth below. An air bubble in the midst of the waters.

Yes, some scholars are interpreting it as the space between the land and the firmament (for example where birds fly), some are interpreting it as the firmament itself. In any case, its still the flat earth cosmology - it separates two masses of water.

Genesis is not a description of a planet in a solar system, rotating and running through the galaxy. Its quite obviously using the ancient, anthropocentric view.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Have you guys seen Ben Stanhope's review of the creation museum?

No, what about it?

 

[BNR32FAN]

You saying something is not making it so. Just having such conversation before does not mean I must accept your beliefs or explanations.

I’m not the one saying what the word means, I’m the one pointing out the definition given in the lexicons. This is not some unsupported claim I’m making, I literally posted the definition straight from Biblehub and you even corrected me by pointing out that Biblehub specifically says that the spelling I used, Raqa, is the root word not the actual word that is used in Genesis 1:17. This means that you know for a fact that this is not just my claim but instead the actual definition given by the lexicons.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And as I said before, even if you translate it as an expanse, it wont help you in any way. You will still get just an expanse between two waters and the sun, the moon and the stars in it. And no, its not the outer space, that would be a huuuge eisegesis and dismissing the biblical context

The Bible never says that there is only one expanse, I pointed that out to. Obviously the expanse mentioned on day two cannot be the same expanse mentioned on day four, because the sun, moon, and stars aren’t inside our atmosphere.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

From the example I see of Jesus referring to the Old Testament its obvious to me he took it literally. For example He says Jonah was in the belly of a fish 3 days and that God spoke to Moses from a burning bush. He refers to these as literal events. He also gives strict reference to believing what Moses wrote.

I can refer to the tortoise and the hare as literal and it really does not prove it.

I don't see any issue with what the Bible tells us - or as you say a literal reading. When God says He created the world in 6 days then thats what He did. You don't have to agree but to try to convice others not to take the Bible literally...do that at your own risk.

But why should we assume it should be taken literally. Especially the older narratives, why assume that they are like dropped from heaven and intended to be taken that way. Why not the Koran? The Vedas? Or any other sacred scriptures?

 

[Aaron112]

Ever since the Renaissance back in the 15th and 16th centuries the literal interpretation has been challenged.

I am more interested in Why we hold the views that we hold.

I cannot tell if anyone on the forum is who they say they are, nor if anyone is honest or not.

Nothing changes Jesus' Word or God's Word, no , nothing.

Jesus is True; Perfect; Righteous; Always.

His Word has been challenged much much longer than the 15th and 16th century. Those who deny Him , He Denies before His Father in heaven (it is not good to be condemned by Jesus).

What Jesus Says Stands Forever, unchanging.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I cannot tell if anyone on the forum is who they say they are, nor if anyone is honest or not.

Nothing changes Jesus' Word or God's Word, no , nothing.

Jesus is True; Perfect; Righteous; Always.

His Word has been challenged much much longer than the 15th and 16th century. Those who deny Him , He Denies before His Father in heaven (it is not good to be condemned by Jesus).

What Jesus Says Stands Forever, unchanging.

And you believe that includes a 6 day creation?

 

[okay]

For many of us, the fear of hell (especially if drilled in at a very young age) can keep us from straying very far from the kind of faith that we were raised with.

I have a highly risk-averse personality, so for a long time I leaned quite a bit into the more literal interpretation I was raised on. That put me into old-Earth creationism for a most of my life. As a child I was taught that more liberal views of scripture were ‘dangerous’, which I internalized as ‘might send me to hell’.

The problems of God ordering the exterminations of the Amalakytes and the genocide of the Canaanites are what eventually lead me to the breaking point and I reached out to a pastor. Thanks be to God that pastor at my evangelical church had me read a book that gave me permission to view the bible very differently.

It doesn’t bother me that some folks believe in strict inerrancy, and hence things like YEC. That is fine. I believe in following my conscience and not judging. But it does bother me if they judge other Christians with different views, and when their interpretations of scripture lead to harm.

And it also bothers me that I have seen Christians walk away from faith altogether because the hermeneutic they had been told is the only ‘faithful’ approach to scripture wasn’t flexible enough for them to actually keep their faith. I wish more pastors / youth group leaders / parents would remind people in their care that Christianity has a big tent. If they ever find that their way of reading scripture isn’t leading to life and is instead causing harm (eg strong cognitive dissonance) that there are many approaches to scripture and other aspects of our faith.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I am growing to appreciate the power of myth and fiction. We quite often think of the them pejoratively, as if less true. But they are often more true than facts and have deeper influence over us and how we choose to live.

"The greatest works of fiction do not simply describe our lives as a merely journalistic or merely photographic account might. Rather by describing the authentic possibilities of human existence- through such structural strategies as plot, narrative, comic and tragic genres- fictions open our minds, our imaginations, and our hearts to newly authentic and clearly transformative possible modes-of-being-in-the-world."

"We often find ourselves deeply transformed and more radically reoriented by such "supreme fictions" than by the most careful; analytical discussions of the distinctions between "is" and "ought". To capture how it feels to live a certain way, to provide by that distanciation process we call genre both a proper imaginative entry into a psychic distance from the "world' of novel, film, or poem frees us t experience that possibility in all its experiential reality. When the possibilities degenerate into a readers mere lateralization of them- desperate attempts to act out the life of Hemmingway character, a Bogart toughness, a Monroe vulnerability- then we may also recognize the pathetic consequences of taking symbols literally and not seriously. p 208 Blessed Rage for Order, David Tracy

 

[Aaron112]

And you believe that includes a 6 day creation?

Notice that what I believe does not matter , nor what you believe, nor what any reader believes.--- what God Says remains unchanged. Forever.
Turn to the Creator and Trust Him , concerning all things, everything..... He Alone is Perfectly Faithful and Eternally Unchanging.