The mystery of Melchizedek

[JimR-OCDS]

Not very satisfying but I found this from a Catholic POV:

The Order of Melchizedek



Continued- The Order of Melchizedek

Great article Michie !

I've always been interested in Melchizedek, especially where he did not offer animal sacrifices, but bread and wine.

Interesting also is that Jesus offers himself as the paschal sacrifice, while at the same time, giving us his body in the bread and wine, to be offered in sacrifice to the Father.

Also interesting is how not long after Jesus resurrection, animal sacrifices by the Jews in the temple, ended and have not come back ever since, although there are some radical Jews who desire to rebuild the temple and being offering animal sacrifices again. In today's world, that will never happen.


Jim

 

[Michie]

Technically, wouldn't Melchizedek be a pagan priest?

I was thinking of this last night as I was falling asleep. Would he not be a prime example of what Paul said about conscience? Or was he a supernatural being?

Of course if he was a son of Noah the above does not apply. Just thinking out loud.

 

[LoAmmi]

Technically, wouldn't Melchizedek be a pagan priest?

I was thinking of this last night as I was falling asleep. Would he not be a prime example of what Paul said about conscience? Or was he a supernatural being?

That would be the Torah calling a pagan god "G-d Most High". I think that's very unlikely.

Of course if he was a son of Noah the above does not apply. Just thinking out loud.

True.

 

[Michie]

That would be the Torah calling a pagan god "G-d Most High". I think that's very unlikely.


True.

I swear I think I read something a few years back of Catholic origin saying the he was "technically" a pagan priest. It threw me & I just logged out. I'll see if I can find it again.

 

[LoAmmi]

I swear I think I read something a few years back of Catholic origin saying the he was "technically" a pagan priest. It threw me & I just logged out. I'll see if I can find it again.

I mean, if we're defining pagan as "not of the line of Abraham" then sure, but the guy tells Abram that he is blessed by the possessor of Heaven and Earth. It would seem off to me if it the Torah would use those words to describe a pagan deity.

 

[Michie]

I mean, if we're defining pagan as "not of the line of Abraham" then sure, but the guy tells Abram that he is blessed by the possessor of Heaven and Earth. It would seem off to me if it the Torah would use those words to describe a pagan deity.

Well Scripture does not put it that way. He was obviously serving the one true God. He was taken up to heaven which puzzles me. It is quite the mystery.

 

[LoAmmi]

Well Scripture does not put it that way. He was obviously serving the one true God. He was taken up to heaven which puzzles me. It is quite the mystery.

Well, taken up to Heaven is a Christian belief so I can't really comment on that aspect of it.

 

[Michie]

LoAmmi- I'm still looking for that pagan reference but I thought you'd be interested in this-

There are various traditions as to the identity of Melchizedek. Encyclopedia Judaica asserts that “There is a Hebrew tradition that Melchizedek was Shem or a son of Shem, the son of Noah, others stipulate that Melchizedek was a grandson of Canaan.” (Encyclopedia Judaica, Keter Publishing House, Jerusalem, Ltd., Jerusalem, Israel, copyright 1972, Vol. 11, columns 1287-1289.)

Melchizedek as Shem

Midrash Sefer HaYashar (Jasher) 16:11, 12, tells us the story of Abram’s meeting with Melchizedek after freeing Lot:

11 And Adonizedek king of Jerusalem, the same was Shem, went out with his men to meet Abram and his people, with bread and wine, and they remained together in the valley of Melech. 12 And Adonizedek blessed Abram, and Abram gave him a tenth from all that he had brought from the spoil of his enemies, for Adonizedek was a priest before God

Book of Jasher is referred in Josh 10:13 and 2 Sam 1:18. This lost book of the Bible was probably a kind of national sacred song-book. Mentioned twice in the Bible, this ancient historical book, once lost, has survived the ravages of time and was faithfully translated into the English language and published in the year 1840.

In these books the name of the King of Jerusalem is given as Adonizedek instead of Melkizedek. This is not surprising as in those days a person had several names.
Melchizedek as Shem can be found in the Targums as in the following references:


Melchizedek was Shem the son of Noah, a priest most high.” (Pirke De Rabbi Eliezar 9A.i)


“And Melchizedek is Shem, the son of Noah.” (Rashi, Commentaries, Genesis 14:18)


“And Melchizedek is Shem, the son of Noah.” (Talmud, Tr. Nedarim 32)


“Tamar was the daughter of Shem, [who is] identified with Melchizedek king of Salem, Priest of God the Most High. (Midrash Rabbah, Vol.2, Soncino Press translation, 1983, p. 796)
Jerusalem Targum on Genesis 14:18; Midrash 126b;

Talmud, Tr. Nedarim 32b;

Martin Buber, Midrash Agada, fn. 18, p. 30.

Continued- Institute of Catholic Culture | Blog | Who is Melchizedek? | Online Catholic Adult Education and Evangelization |Institute of Catholic Culture

 

[Tallguy88]

Well Scripture does not put it that way. He was obviously serving the one true God. He was taken up to heaven which puzzles me. It is quite the mystery.

Melchizedek was taken up into heaven? I don't remember that. Are you sure you don't mean Enoch?

 

[LoAmmi]

LoAmmi- I'm still looking for that pagan reference but I thought you'd be interested in this-



Continued- Institute of Catholic Culture | Blog | Who is Melchizedek? | Online Catholic Adult Education and Evangelization |Institute of Catholic Culture

Yeah. That's who I thought it was based upon my reading of tradition.

 

[Michie]

Melchizedek was taken up into heaven? I don't remember that. Are you sure you don't mean Enoch?

You are right but there is nothing recorded concerning his death.

From Alonso's post-

[Hebrews 7]

{7:1} For this Melchizedek, king of Salem,
priest of the Most High God, met Abraham, as he was
returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him.
{7:2} And Abraham divided to him a tenth part of everything.
And in translation his name is first, indeed, king of justice,
and next also king of Salem, that is, king of peace.
{7:3} Without father, without mother, without genealogy,
having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, he is thereby
likened to the Son of God, who remains a priest continuously.
{7:4} Next, consider how great this man is, since the
Patriarch Abraham even gave tithes to him from the principal​

things. {7:5} And indeed, those who are from the sons of

Levi, having received the priesthood, hold a commandment
to take tithes from the people in accord with the law, that is,
from their brothers, even though they also went forth from
the loins of Abraham. {7:6} But this man, whose lineage is
not enumerated with them, received tithes from Abraham,
and he blessed even the one who held the promises. {7:7} Yet
this is without any contradiction, for what is less should be
blessed by what is better. {7:8} And certainly, here, men who
receive tithes still die; but there, he bears witness that he lives.
{7:9} And so it may be said that even Levi, who received
tithes, was himself a tithe through Abraham. {7:10} For he
was still in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him.
{7:11} Therefore, if consummation had occurred through the
Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law),
then what further need would there be for another Priest to
rise up according to the order of Melchizedek, one who was
not called according to the order of Aaron? {7:12} For since
the priesthood has been transferred, it is necessary that the
law also be transferred. {7:13} For he about whom these
things have been spoken is from another tribe, in which no
one attends before the altar. {7:14} For it is evident that our
Lord arose out of Judah, a tribe about which Moses said
nothing concerning priests. {7:15} And yet it is far more
evident that, according to the likeness of Melchizedek, there
rises up another priest, {7:16} who was made, not according
to the law of a carnal commandment, but according to the
virtue of an indissoluble life. {7:17} For he testifies: “You are
a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.”
{7:18} Certainly, there is a setting aside of the former
commandment, because of its weakness and lack of
usefulness. {7:19} For the law led no one to perfection, yet
truly it introduced a better hope, through which we draw near
to God. {7:20} Moreover, it is not without an oath. For
certainly, the others were made priests without an oath.
{7:21} But this man was made a priest with an oath, by the
One who said to him: “The Lord has sworn and he will not
repent. You are a priest forever.” {7:22} By so much, Jesus
has been made the sponsor of a better testament. {7:23} And
certainly, so many of the others became priests because, due
to death, they were prohibited from continuing. {7:24} But
this man, because he continues forever, has an everlasting
priesthood. {7:25} And for this reason, he is able,
continuously, to save those who approach God through him,
since he is ever alive to make intercession on our behalf.
{7:26} For it was fitting that we should have such a High
Priest: holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and
exalted higher than the heavens. {7:27} And he has no need,
daily, in the manner of other priests, to offer sacrifices, first
for his own sins, and then for those of the people. For he has
done this once, by offering himself. {7:28} For the law
appoints men as priests, though they have infirmities. But, by
the word of the oath that is after the law, the Son has been​

perfected for eternity.

 

[LoAmmi]

You are right but there is nothing recorded concerning his death.

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing recorded concerning the deaths of any of the kings that came to that battle.

 

[Michie]

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing recorded concerning the deaths of any of the kings that came to that battle.

Some see him as a prefigurement of Christ. His priesthood was higher than Abrahams (Abraham paid him tithes) and he offered "bread and wine" (foreshadowing the Eucharist).

There is also no record of his death in scripture and he is referenced in the NT with Jesus becoming a priest forever, "in the order of Melchizedek".

So he is a different figure altogether than the other kings.

No record of parentage, birth, death but he played an important role in salvation history.

So from a Christian POV he stands out as an important yet mysterious figure.

 

[LoAmmi]

Some see him as a prefigurement of Christ. His priesthood was higher than Abrahams (Abraham paid him tithes) and he offered "bread and wine" (foreshadowing the Eucharist).

There is also no record of his death in scripture and he is referenced in the NT with Jesus becoming a priest forever, "in the order of Melchizedek".

So he is a different figure altogether than the other kings.

No record of parentage, birth, death but he played an important role in salvation history.

So from a Christian POV he stands out as an important yet mysterious figure.

As I said, the Christian concept is something I cannot comment on. We do not see him as that important of a figure.

 

[Michie]

Here is the pagan reference. I obviously did not read carefully.

Although Melchizedek is technically a pagan priest, he recognizes the one supreme deity, using the title, “God Most High,” just as the Jewish people would. Accepting this blessing and offering, Abraham gives to Melchizedek a tithe of one-tenth the booty from his campaign. After this encounter, however, Melchizedek disappears from the Genesis story.

A Priest of God Most High

 

[WarriorAngel]

He wasnt in Abraham's line - but he believed [no doubt] in the same One God - Noah believed in the one God.
Was anyone 'chosen' at the time? Technically....not yet.

 

[Zeek]

Interesting Michie....


I realise Jewish tradition and teaching often refers to Melchizedek as Shem, but the book of Hebrews makes it plain that this is not the case as we have the geneology of Shem.

You can't really call Melchizedek a Pagan because he recognized his Creator...if you think about it, although Abraham was called out of Ur and a paganistic culture to the land of Canaan...this land was already inhabited by people who had known Noah, and some would have believed in the G-d of Noah...because Noah was a preacher of righteousness.

The idea of any priest taking upon themselves the order of Melchizedek is curious because it was non-transferable, and is one of the mistakes the Mormons make when they claim to have people initiated into both the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods.

 

[Michie]

Interesting Michie....


I realise Jewish tradition and teaching often refers to Melchizedek as Shem, but the book of Hebrews makes it plain that this is not the case as we have the geneology of Shem.

You can't really call Melchizedek a Pagan because he recognized his Creator...if you think about it, although Abraham was called out of Ur and a paganistic culture to the land of Canaan...this land was already inhabited by people who had known Noah, and some would have believed in the G-d of Noah...because Noah was a preacher of righteousness.

The idea of any priest taking upon themselves the order of Melchizedek is curious because it was non-transferable, and is one of the mistakes the Mormons make when they claim to have people initiated into both the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods.

I'm doing a bit of research on this issue.

I was thinking on this last night. Jesus who refers to Himself as Living Bread was born in Bethlehem. Which means basket of bread doesn't it? Melchizedek thanks God for the first fruits. Bread & fruit of the vine.... It all seems very connected but my mind is all over the place with this at this point. But it all seems very connected & pointing towards Jesus from a Christian POV concerning the seamless unfolding of salvation history.

 

[Zeek]

Bet Lechem means House of Bread...possibly 'bakery'. Some have tried to claim it means 'House of Fighters' as a reference to David (a fighter) and the word Lechem also meaning fighter...personally I find this a bit of a stretch, but haven't looked into it...happy studying.

 

[Michie]

Bet Lechem means House of Bread...possibly 'bakery'. Some have tried to claim it means 'House of Fighters' as a reference to David (a fighter) and the word Lechem also meaning fighter...personally I find this a bit of a stretch, but haven't looked into it...happy studying.

So far it seems to mean House of Bread. Interesting given how Jesus calls Himself the Bread of Life.

I'm enjoying the studying.