The morality of theft

[water_ripple]

Keep in mind that plenty of people starve to death, die of exposure to the elements or die due to a lack of otherwise available medicine. So the idea that one must only pray and their needs will be met doesn't seem to have the kind of support you might think. I don't advocate stealing, but simply recognize the rare circumstance where it may be necessary.

My family has been in the position of not having food..I prayed for help from God..We were provided for. There have been times in our life where we had to choose rather to pay the bills or get food. Food won out..Our bills compiled..We both went to the Lord in prayer, and our prayers were answered. We may not be rich in material things, but we are rich in more important ways. Our family loves each other. Somehow the money comes by at the time of the most need, and there have been many times when my husband and I have thanked God for hearing us. Yeah I might be eating hot dogs or peanut butter and jelly, but ya know what there are lots of people who do not even that. The power of prayer does work. Blindfatih may not make you materially wealthy, but needs will be met. Mine have..

A little old lady that I know had her life saved..I am told..because somebody saw her lying in her driveway. It was a very snowy cold day, and nobody could be sure how long she was there..Somebody though cared enough to go and help her. She was rushed to Morgantown where she was treated (she had blood on her brain from the fall)..if she had laid there she would've died.

Christ is alive and well today, and He still touches lives. Prayers are answered, and there are people out there who work in His Spirit...Nothing is beyond His power, and working through others is one of the ways in which He touches us. Faith does make a person whole...If a person is in serious need pray with all of your heart, mind, and soul. You will be answered. I have been, and I am no more perfect than the next person. If you are serious about accepting Christ in your life He will work in your life.

 

[tcampen]

Was that somebody who saved the old lady in the driveway Jesus, or a just "good samaritan?" Did God pay your bills, or feed you with supernatural powers? Or did individuals and opportunities come about to make these things happen? What about the people in similar circumstances who also prayed and were not helped, or those that prayed to a completely different god or no god at all and were helped.

The direct connection between being provided for in a material sense by God just can't be objectively established. That is a matter of faith, which I totally respect. But my point was that anectdotal stories of non-supernatural provisions from God can be reasonably interpreted a mulititude of ways. When viewed on a large scale, I think you'll find it exceedingly difficult to correlate particular prayers with particular provisions.

 

[water_ripple]

Was that somebody who saved the old lady in the driveway Jesus, or a just "good samaritan?" Did God pay your bills, or feed you with supernatural powers? Or did individuals and opportunities come about to make these things happen? What about the people in similar circumstances who also prayed and were not helped, or those that prayed to a completely different god or no god at all and were helped.

The direct connection between being provided for in a material sense by God just can't be objectively established. That is a matter of faith, which I totally respect. But my point was that anectdotal stories of non-supernatural provisions from God can be reasonably interpreted a mulititude of ways. When viewed on a large scale, I think you'll find it exceedingly difficult to correlate particular prayers with particular provisions.

Anyone who has ever helped us believes in Jesus Christ. It is not difficult at all, and I believe that yes Christ works through His believers as well as supernatural miracles. Through our prayers doorways were opened that were closed before. I belive in the power of Christ, and I believe that supernatural things happen to this day. I've lived through and seen a few myself.

I can assure you that the one who picked up the old lady was acting in the loving spirit of Christ...How do I know? It was me...and I assure you of something else five vehicles went by before I got to her, and her son-in-law was at home at the time. He didn't even realise anything was wrong.

I've had my time with other gods..They only brought me misery..I am completly convinced that those other gods that I used to follow never did me any good. They brought me misdirection and misery.

I've had my time with no higher power. That brought me anger and bitterness, and I laughed in the face of Christians. I thought they were silly and ignorant.

Jesus Christ is the one who has brought me strength, and peace that I've never known before. Nothing else has ever touched my life like that before. He is my Savior, and from what I have learned of His power..He is capable of transforming the lives of other as well..Mine sure was in a sorry state. Everyday I try and get closer, and soon I will have a church.

 

[tcampen]

I've had my time with no higher power. That brought me anger and bitterness, and I laughed in the face of Christians. I thought they were silly and ignorant. Jesus Christ is the one who has brought me strength, and peace that I've never known before. Nothing else has ever touched my life like that before. He is my Savior, and from what I have learned of His power..He is capable of transforming the lives of other as well..Mine sure was in a sorry state. Everyday I try and get closer, and soon I will have a church.

That's cool. People of all faiths find such strength and motivation in their beliefs. While I may not be a Christian, I have helped people in ways you describe, from jumping in the middle of traffic to help motorcycle accident victims, to helping people who were getting mugged, to helping the elderly in my neighborhood when they are locked out of their house or even pass out on the sidewalk. I attribute these acts to a belief in doing the right thing for goodness' sake - because its how we humans should treat eachother. I believe such acts also set an example of moral and virtuous behavior, although I am nowhere near perfect - I do strive to be a better person. My family and I donate our time and money to animal shelters, serve as foster parents to animals, and volunteer our time in mentor programs for foster children. I'm just getting started.

I am not bitter, angry or laught in the face of anyone. I'm just saying that I see it differently, and I have good reason for doing so. In terms of this thread, I disagree with the idea God will necessarily provide for material needs given the examples I've shown where God does not. About 10,000,000 people die every year from starvation. One could argue that if they were all Christian and prayed to God for help, this number would be zero, but we must recognize at least some of these ten million people are christian and praying for God's help, yet they still die. In light of this reality, I have difficulty accepting your assertion God necessarily provides to his faithful that pray for such help. The evidence shows that is not the case. That's all I'm saying.

 

[BInC]

That's cool. People of all faiths find such strength and motivation in their beliefs.

I can tell you one thing for sure. I know from experience the feeling of faiths besides that of christianity. Sure, there is a bit of the motivation you mention here just becuase of the belief that you are right. But Christianity has a different feel to it. You feel the strength and motivation from yourself, but more. You can feel somthing else with you to, somthing pushing you in the right direction. It is the Holy Spirit. There is nothing else like it. You cannot understand until you have felt it, but when you do, you will know. You will know.

 

[The Fireman]

We should be helping those less fortunate than ourselves..not throwing them in the slammer because that was the last resort to feed their family.

Amen!!!!

The Fireman

 

[Havoc]

I can tell you one thing for sure. I know from experience the feeling of faiths besides that of christianity. Sure, there is a bit of the motivation you mention here just becuase of the belief that you are right. But Christianity has a different feel to it. You feel the strength and motivation from yourself, but more. You can feel somthing else with you to, somthing pushing you in the right direction. It is the Holy Spirit. There is nothing else like it. You cannot understand until you have felt it, but when you do, you will know. You will know.

Funny, people who leave Christianity for other religions report the exact same experiences, from the other direction.

 

[water_ripple]

That's cool. People of all faiths find such strength and motivation in their beliefs. While I may not be a Christian, I have helped people in ways you describe, from jumping in the middle of traffic to help motorcycle accident victims, to helping people who were getting mugged, to helping the elderly in my neighborhood when they are locked out of their house or even pass out on the sidewalk. I attribute these acts to a belief in doing the right thing for goodness' sake - because its how we humans should treat eachother. I believe such acts also set an example of moral and virtuous behavior, although I am nowhere near perfect - I do strive to be a better person. My family and I donate our time and money to animal shelters, serve as foster parents to animals, and volunteer our time in mentor programs for foster children. I'm just getting started.

I am not bitter, angry or laught in the face of anyone. I'm just saying that I see it differently, and I have good reason for doing so. In terms of this thread, I disagree with the idea God will necessarily provide for material needs given the examples I've shown where God does not. About 10,000,000 people die every year from starvation. One could argue that if they were all Christian and prayed to God for help, this number would be zero, but we must recognize at least some of these ten million people are christian and praying for God's help, yet they still die. In light of this reality, I have difficulty accepting your assertion God necessarily provides to his faithful that pray for such help. The evidence shows that is not the case. That's all I'm saying.

The evidence shows that you do not believe me. An opininon of which you are well entitled to have. My assertion is that prayer does infact work as it has worked in my life many times, and that since I have personally experienced it that yes it will work for others as well. Infact I was mocked in the sense that perhaps I was not sure where the answers came from, and that the supernatural just cannot be linked into the physical world as we know it...automatic dismissal

There will always be some sort of strife in this world because it is not perfect, and when people are starving to death the world will watch them. Or they can do something about starvation..which is exactly what Christian missionaries do. They reach out in the Spirit of Christ and feed, clothe, house, and give them medical treatment. More often than not it is the Christians who are going abroad, and overseas doing something about the poorest of the poor. Even Christians on US soil are doing the same at home. I realize that not every single person doing these things are not all Christian, but a majority of them are.

And as far as other faiths I've been in quite a few myself. None of them gave me the motivaiton that Christ does or the sense of peace...Anger used to burn so hot inside that at times I thought I would be consumed by the fire...Do not get me wrong I still get upset, but nothing compared to what that inferno used to be...Stress and migraines..I got a good one about every 2 weeks..not anymore. Depression...no longer am I plagued by that disease.

I apologize if my example of the elderly lady seemed like some kind of challenge to measure of character. I only wrote about it because it was a way in which Christ is making a difference in my life. Not because I have to work, but because I love.

Ah, tcampen if you care about people like ya say ya do resistance is futile.