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Lol, why should I continue ? You have seemingly made your mind up right ? You even know all of the " logic" I am trying to use right ?Oh, not this continuing-is-futile business...
That is such an cop out.
I'm sorry that all three theories have the same weight, by your "gotcha"-logic.
Lol, why should I continue ? You have seemingly made your mind up right ? You even know all of the " logic" I am trying to use right ?
Cop out? No , not even a little bit. Wasted time, yes. I would be thrilled to have a back and forth discussion on the validity of Christ and the validity of the bible, but that seems like a waste of time on this thread to me, sorry
The evidence would still rely on faith. Any religion , and belief in any God , or gods relies on some level of faith. Can I prove to you there is a God ? No , I cannot. Can anyone disprove there is a God ? No , they cannot.No Docpotter, we haven't made up our mind. That is what essentially brought us to the position of standing without religion. I am offering you a chance to present your beliefs in the way people such as myself (and non sequitur) can only understand fact. Through evidence. If you can prove that not just God exists, but Christianity is the real teachings of this creator through undeniable evidence, I would happily begin moving myself towards your position on the existence of God.
But until you can do just that, we are not moving.
The points I was trying to make earlier is simply that if Jesus was who He claimed He was, then that would make every other religion false. Agree or disagree ? and why
He said He is the Christ , the Messiah foretold by the prophets 100s and 100s of years earlier. He says " I am the way , the truth , the life, NO MAN can come to the Father except through Me " .Well, I don't know everything he said or every religion, but sure.
However, one has to accept your premise as true, first, so I'm not sure what that gets you.
He said He is the Christ , the Messiah foretold by the prophets 100s and 100s of years earlier. He says " I am the way , the truth , the life, NO MAN can come to the Father except through Me " .
He says there is only one God.
So , when investigating any other major world religion, you will find they either worship many gods, or deny Christ was who He claimed to be. They all cannot be right. They could all be wrong yes. But they cannot all be right.
"because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:19, 20If God is all mighty and powerful, then why hasn't he made himself more known to us, so we know for sure he is the real God?
Order in the universe points to an organizer. Matter does not organize itself. Design is clearly seen in nature pointing to a designer. Information in the genetic code did not come by chance mutations. It's like saying an explosion happened in a print shop that produced the Encyclopedia Brittanica. These are examples of Him making Himself known indirectly.
Now the more direct way was that He would become a man and live amoung us > JESUS
No one can make you believe in anything. God doesn't force anyone. he draws you to Himself and you willingly choose. Imagine a veil over your eyes that was blinding you to see where you are going. He lifts that veil so that you can see. And believe me, you do see the world differently from then on.If I was forced to choose a religion ...
Again, you are already without excuse. Logic doesn't find God. You can't intellectualize faith. It is a gift. Ask and you will receive. But faith comes by the word of God. Just read one book in the Bible, the book of John. Remove all doubts, be like a child, pray and ask, "If you really exist God, show me." Then read it. The words are sharper then a sword and will pierce your heart but you have to have an open door and give Him the benefit of the doubt. Pride will keep your door closed.I meet God and tell him "Sorry, but there was no way for me to logically prove to myself that being a Christian was better than any other religion." What would he do?
"Good!But I have been with moral character all my life!
A moral code or compass is evidence of God as well. Where did that come from? Your conscience says you ought to go this way and you try to rationalize or analyze it logically and choose the wrong way! The voice inside you telling you to do something isn't always you? Is that you arguing with yourself. You may say, your parents of society taught you morals. But this conflict within, is this just you struggling with yourself? And then, afterwards, the guilt. Is this a self imposed moral that we violate? Why do you feel guilty for anything? God wired us that way.
Even though you are not aware of it, he has led you to this forum. He orchestrates people and events in your life to lead you to a certain moment at which time He reveals Himself. Get ready, I'll pray for you.
Living by rules is not Christianity. That was the Old Testament Law. We live by faith through grace -- because Christ fulfilled the Law for us. We could not. You treated others as you wanted to be treated? Where do you think that came from? Jesus said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto yourselves"I may not have lived by all your rules, but I treated others the way I wished to be treated
He has. The gospel is the good news. Any book leading you away from Christ is a scheme of Satan. Christianity is not void of reason or science.Assuming the devil is writing these books, why hasn't God countered them?
There is evidence for our faith, it is not blind. In a court of law, the evidence surrounding the resurrection of Christ is overwhelming in favor and iron-clad for the truth as written.
The is a spiritual battle going on in the unseen world to take your soul and you have no idea what God is doing to save you from that. He sends angels to protect you, He sends you messages to go this way and do that. Do you think all your thoughts come from your own logic? Did you ever have an evil thought and ask, where the heck did that come from, then catching yourself and dismissing it? Temptations come but your moral code counters them and what happens? As you said, you do the right thing --most of the time. You really think what's going on in your mind is ALL YOU?But when the devil is using logic that we are familiar with (science and reasoning) to tempt us away, God is relying solely on good faith to keep us at bay. I find it incredibly naive of God to think that we would not be swayed to the devil's side, when he is using the only thing we base our own knowledge on, facts, to disprove him.
Give me a logical explanation including any facts you have of how a child develops in the womb. Start with the sperm, the egg, mitosis, how the cells duplicate themselves, deciphering genetic codes, create amino acids and proteins, complex systems and organs all in a precision way thats contingiently dependent on all other systems and organs to develop and function simultaneously, and then nine months later, a baby who looks like his/her parents appears. Keep in mind that the mother doesn't order what's going on inside her and the cells themselves don't have little brains to order this process, so then how does this life form develop? Can you logically tell me that nothing outside of this fetus designed it, ordered it and formed it in the womb?...God hasn't been able to prove himself to us by the only way we know how to prove facts.
Read the book of John, then I'll talk to you again.
There is a huge difference. Where does the power come from ?
There are psychics, what the bible calls " divination ". It has an evil source, as does some magic. Witches, wicca, satanism , paganism, etc. The occult .
This , if anything further proves the bible to be accurate.
It proves nothing nor does quoting anything prove anything. It is of use to you but you evidently have your door closed. You must come to God in humility.Quoting scripture proves nothing and therefore is of no use to me.
You don't have to give up logic. You want evidence? Examine the details of the resurrection of Jesus. He was confirmed dead when a Roman guard plunged a sword in his side and water and blood gushed out. They wrapped him up and buried in a tomb with a 1 ton stone in front of it, sealed by and guarded by Roman guards, who were under orders and under the penalty of death if they failed in any way. Angels appeared --according to the guards and they fell paralyzed while the stone was rolled away and Jesus rose from the dead on this third day. His wrappings (shroud) were left undisturbed as if he passed through them. Over 500 people saw him at once and he appeared to many for 40 days afterwards and then ascended. If the body had been stolen, the Pharisees would have found it in an all out search since they did not want this story to live on. The disciples were grieving in a state of depression and also in fear of their lives. They would never attempt overtaking guards to take the body and for what. Their disposition was transformed from broken, cowardice men to courageous preachers filled with power after they saw Him and later received the Holy Spirit. Were they willing to die gruesome deaths for a fabricated story? No. Has Jesus changed lives since then and changed the world ... yes. Logical thinking about this evidence would lead you to believe it.I cannot rely on giving up logic
Do you like baseball? Read about Frank Pastore (an ex-pro pitcher) in his book, Shattered. He was an atheist who used to mock Christians like you do and then when he actually researched the claims made in the Bible for himself, (using rational logic), he found that Jesus is for real and the Bible is the truth. It hasn't been changed, since there are over 5000 manuscripts that have been passed down and transcribed accurately. Textural criticism is used which is a literary method of testing accuracy in the copies made. This is a very strict method that is used for all books of antiquity. You want facts? The Bible has been proven true through archeological finds confirming these people, places and events described existed and happened with hair splitting accuracy. Prophecies have been fulfilled demonstrating that only a supernatural vision must have been given by a supernatural Supreme Being watching over us. If prophets were wrong, they would be stoned to death -- that was the test of a prophet, 100% accuracy. This is why many had faith. You can't make over 300 prophecies about a coming Messiah (given 500-1700 years before his birth) and then have them all come true. Mathematicians have just taken eight prophecies and determined that the odds of one person fulfilled them was 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 So, 300 prophecies fulfilled by chance would prove impossible. Fact? Logic? You don't have to leave your brain at home when you are introduced to the Creator of the Universe. You do have to put your pride aside and assume that you really know nothing about life until you meet your Maker.
He doesn't control you, right now you are influenced mostly by Satan who is putting doubts and lies in your head about God. So far, he is winning and will eventually take your soul ... unless God has you on his list to be saved, which I suspect, then He will draw you to himself at a chosen moment in your life when he will lift that veil so you can see. Right now, you are blind and kind of deaf and dumb to what's going on ... but so were we all! There are spiritual influences good and bad and that is partially why we sometimes make bad choices but mainly it is sin in our lives. Someone said sin is missing the mark. The ten commandments give us an idea what sin is. Have you dishonered your parents, lied, stolen, committed adultery, murdered, coveted, etc.? No one can say they haven't done these things, except Jesus. Not loving God breaks the first four commandments. Again these laws were given so that we understand what sin is. What can one do to get rid of yours sins? Nothing. Jesus can wash away those sins ... if you believe.I think it is absolutely disgusting that you are saying God gave me life just to control every aspect of it.
I'm sorry but I don't think I actually have to reply to your last statement until you go and read some biology textbooks again. You do that and maybe I'll read the book of John.
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