The Moral Decline

[Nikos100]

I didn't know where else to place this so I decided to place it here.

Has anyone else noticed that we seem to be on a steam train of moral degredation in the West? I'm not criticizing Atheists but it seems that every and any Moral Value has to be questioned and disregarded and replaced with 'Liberalism', which basically means letting your children do what they want. I am no 'extremist' but I am seriously scared, when I get married and have children what is going to happen to them? There is nothing left that is sacred in the West anymore, moral values seem to have no place in American or British Society and we even have some loony Atheists (not all of them) who believe Paedophilia should be legalized!!!

What are we going to do?

 

[Eudaimonist]

There is nothing left that is sacred in the West anymore

I don't think that is quite true, but I agree with you that much more should be held sacred. There seems to be a crisis of meaning (which I don't blame liberalism for, but rather postmodernism) that needs to be filled with something of greater substance, though not necessarily religion.

 

[gaijin178]

I can agree with you in your OP on one thing, that yes, people in the west seem to be abandoning what was traditionally called moral. My main problem with this idea in America is this, what we usually refer to as the moral majority in politics is headed by this current president. This same president who is leading an unjust war among many other things. How can Americans hold to moral values when their leader which many support has none?

 

[Nikos100]

I can agree with you in your OP on one thing, that yes, people in the west seem to be abandoning what was traditionally called moral. My main problem with this idea in America is this, what we usually refer to as the moral majority in politics is headed by this current president. This same president who is leading an unjust war among many other things. How can Americans hold to moral values when their leader which many support has none?

George Bush is no Christian.

 

[gaijin178]

George Bush is no Christian.

Yes, well, in his actions, no...you are right. But you as a Christian should know that you cannot know what is really in a mans heart and judge him on his true nature.

 

[Nikos100]

Yes, well, in his actions, no...you are right. But you as a Christian should know that you cannot know what is really in a mans heart and judge him on his true nature.

True, but I'm pretty sure he believes what he says. Therefore he is no Christian.

 

[vipertaja]

George Bush is no Christian.

Well, there are those who think they are christian and those who act like one.

I'd note that not all in the second group need to be christian to act like one.
(EDIT: whoops..."act like one" seems to have a potential double meaning here...)

As for moral decline...I agree partly that it has gone worse, but remember that it's always the next
generation that is wicked...it has always been that way. "We" are sensible but those awful young punks...
This is where the "back in my days..." starts.The funny thing is that the "my day" tends to be both better
and worse depending on conveniency. It's either good music and better lives or miles to walk to school in
a storm of glasshards...that was apparently natural back then.

I hope I didn't detrail the thread too far with my insane ramblings...

 

[Alecto]

Nah I dont think we're in a moral decline, I think we're so repressive about the bad things in our society that we blow them out of porportion.

 

[Nikos100]

Nah I dont think we're in a moral decline, I think we're so repressive about the bad things in our society that we blow them out of porportion.

Yes we are, and its the fault of Capitalism and the brainwashing techniques used towards the young in marketing.

 

[Lifesaver]

We are in a great moral decline, ever since the so-called Renaissance, in fact, with some epochs of some "moralizing reaction" in between, but ineffective to stop the process.

The cause of this is the lack of Faith, and the embrace of ideologies and ideals contrary to it, such as materialism, socialism, humanism, hedonism, consumerism, pacifism and so many others, which pervert the right order of values.

The only true cure for this is the conversion of many to the true Faith, the true religion, the true Church.

 

[Nikos100]

We are in a great moral decline, ever since the so-called Renaissance, in fact, with some epochs of some "moralizing reaction" in between, but ineffective to stop the process.

The cause of this is the lack of Faith, and the embrace of ideologies and ideals contrary to it, such as materialism, socialism, humanism, hedonism, consumerism, pacifism and so many others, which pervert the right order of values.

The only true cure for this is the conversion of many to the true Faith, the true religion, the true Church.

I agree. But Socialism does not encourage Moral Decline, there are many things that lie in tangent with Christianity with Socialism.

 

[vipertaja]

We are in a great moral decline, ever since the so-called Renaissance, in fact, with some epochs of some "moralizing reaction" in between, but ineffective to stop the process.

The cause of this is the lack of Faith, and the embrace of ideologies and ideals contrary to it, such as materialism, socialism, humanism, hedonism, consumerism, pacifism and so many others, which pervert the right order of values.

The only true cure for this is the conversion of many to the true Faith, the true religion, the true Church.

In other words: "I'm a good guy...you...you PERV!"
Nothing new there.

 

[arunma]

I agree. But Socialism does not encourage Moral Decline, there are many things that lie in tangent with Christianity with Socialism.

I agree that Christianity and the economic points of socialism are very compatible philosophies (apart from the fact that Christianity is a religion, not a philosophy). The problem is that most socialists happen to also be atheists, and I think that atheism is the greatest of moral evils. If socialists would simply profess a belief in theism, I would probably give American socialists more political support.

 

[Nikos100]

I agree that Christianity and the economic points of socialism are very compatible philosophies (apart from the fact that Christianity is a religion, not a philosophy). The problem is that most socialists happen to also be atheists, and I think that atheism is the greatest of moral evils. If socialists would simply profess a belief in theism, I would probably give American socialists more political support.

www.christiansocialist.org.uk

 

[hiumble1]

I believe there are many factors that are at work in the Moral Decline that is trying to get a grip on the world as a whole.
First it is the advent of technology booms... the media is part of the problem
Second Getting God out of any public avenue, be it the ten commandments or the Bible.

When we see the media outpore with pop music and popculture in general, we are lead toward what makes us feel good (which is not always good) we want to see things that feed our lusts our desires our flesh. And the media is more than happy to supply it if we are willing to pay for it. Then we have the problem with at that point with the presence of GOd as long as we have Goid present it will slow our actions and remind us of what we should be doing. So 'they' have to get god out of th epicture as much as possible, so they get rid of Bibles in the public schools, and out of all public places as much as possible and anything religious in nature is driven underground. Making anything of God harder to find so it makes it easier to do things which are wrong.

Many things have been done in the name of Religion: Wars, stealing, lies, killing, etc.
But speaking of what Jesus said he came not to bring Religion, but the truth.
When I say I am christian and people ask what church I belong to or what Religion I am, I tell them I follow Jesus, I do not believe in a religion for many a religion has taken from the poor, the rich, the sick, has started wars, has killed man, has lied to fuel its agenda. I Believe he came so that we might all have life eternal

 

[Alecto]

Socialists tend to have utilitarian mind-sets. If it aint useful, get it out of here. And religion is not inherantly useful. It has some beneficial aspects, but is not useful in and of itself. It brings problems within a society and a socialist society is about cooperation and anything that hinders that cooperation is viewed as bad, IE: Religion

 

[Nikos100]

Socialists tend to have utilitarian mind-sets. If it aint useful, get it out of here. And religion is not inherantly useful. It has some beneficial aspects, but is not useful in and of itself. It brings problems within a society and a socialist society is about cooperation and anything that hinders that cooperation is viewed as bad, IE: Religion

Don't generalize. I am a Socialist.

 

[DaRkWoLf]

I do feel a moral decline in the US.

Two indications of this seem to be the somewhat scapegoated "gangsta hip hop" and the idolization of "pimping."

Both of which are degrading. Some can say its "reporting" life events but I believe otherwise. Heres a few lyrics to prove my point: "if I catch another case im gonna kill gulianni" (50 cent - corner bodega), "cuz when the pumps (refering to shotguns) come out your gonna speak chinese" (jin - learn chinese). Both of the aforementioned songs contain content refering to narcotics, to say the least.

But now we must look at why people like those type of songs. To be honest, I own various hip-hop cds, including Jin's "the rest is history" and 50's "Guess Whos Back" from which those lyrics came; although I prefer techno and industrial (vnv nation is my favorite). Careful afterthought has lead me to the conclusion that people are upset with their governement on many issues, but not enough to vote it out of office; they see the inefficiency and corruption of beurocracy; and they (partially due to overmedication and poor parenting) have axes to grind and poorly developed social skills.

Ill admit my contempt of the beurocratic system, and a lack of social skills (which I need to work on). If im not competing in a shooting match or practicing for one, or if im not fixing someones computer, chances are that im at home wishing I was doing one of those activities, I simply dont get out much do to my lack of social skills.

As for socialism: Socialism is a sure way to screw up anything larger than a familly sized clan-state. Divide everything equally in my state of Florida alone and id bet there would be such a deficet that everyone would be in impoverished conditions. Its impractical and idealistic. Carl Marx flatly said that both socialism and communism have in their own systems the seed of their own destructions.

As for religion: Forcing religion down anyones throat will earn a justly deserved revolution, or at least a nasty uprising/incursion. If a nation did that I would hope that their leadership was dealt with similarly to Mousolinni (sp, I never could spell his name). Beliefs are beliefs, there is no reason to force someone to believe what one believes. That is immoral in and of itself. Lets take Lifesavers "One truth" statement. That is perfectly fine to believe, but when it becomes practice, that is an atrocity. There is no definate proof other than belief, which is not hard fact to anyone but the believer. That is what makes me worry and have preperations to defend home and hearth. Plainbly, you dont need religion to have morals. Apples to oranges, at least through my contorted objective thought.

Nice thread Nikos.

 

[Alecto]

I said "tend", not "have". Big difference

 

[Eudaimonist]

Yes we are, and its the fault of Capitalism and the brainwashing techniques used towards the young in marketing.

Capitalism has been good for morals, since it promotes personal responsibility. It is socialism that has been eroding morality by allowing people to be lazy about developing virtue.