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The Moral Argument

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Ana the Ist

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bhsmte said:
Your question would open a can of worms for him and needs to be evaded.
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I don't understand the thinking behind "We can figure out what objective morals are....but I'm not going to tell you how. Just take my word for it lol."

Imagine if I used that argument for anything...

"We can totally figure out how to move things with our mind...but never mind the details, I'm not going to explain the process...just take my word for it."

You'd laugh at me...maybe tell me "good luck with convincing anyone of that".
 
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bhsmte

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When you start with a predetermined belief, you will see people twisting themselves up in knots, trying desperately to protect the belief.
 
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anonymous person

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That's not all you don't understand.

You don't understand what ontology means either.
 
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Ana the Ist

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anonymous person said:
Great.

But I don't care about what your opinions are on moral issues.

If you don't have any facts you want to appeal to then you have nothing to show me.
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If you need moral facts to have this discussion...then I strongly suggest you figure out a way to demonstrate some.


Otherwise, your argument is nothing but empty claims.
 
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Davian

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Ana the Ist

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bhsmte said:
When you start with a predetermined belief, you will see people twisting themselves up in knots, trying desperately to protect the belief.
Click to expand...


I think in the case of morality...it's the uncertainty of opinions. People don't like the idea that they just "think" they're doing the good thing...they want to "know" they're doing a good thing.

It's as if they don't trust themselves to make good choices on their own...they want some fictional standard to exist which they can compare their behavior to. In that way, they can "know" they've made the right decision...instead of being uncertain or doubting their choices.

The sad thing is, it's that "certainty" of knowing good from bad which enables people to do some of the worst things imaginable...IMO. Perhaps a little doubt would be a healthy thing to have when it comes to morality.
 
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Ana the Ist

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anonymous person said:
That's not all you don't understand.

You don't understand what ontology means either.
Click to expand...


From Wikipedia...

"Ontology is the philosophical study of the nature of being, becoming, existence, or reality, as well as the basic categories of being and their relations."

So certainly how your objective morals "exist" or how they come to exist (becoming) is entirely relevant.

I'm sorry...you're allowed to assume something exists, but don't pretend like we can't challenge that assumption. That's the foundation of this discussion...without demonstrating the existence of objective morals, your argument is dead on arrival.
 
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Davian

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No, by accurate, I meant, coherently and robustly described, supported with testable and falsifiable hypotheses and theories, and subject to change with exposure to new information.
 
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Lulav

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What a Shame

This thread is so full of flames if I liked marshmallows, I'd
get out my bag of them and a stick and have a party.
But I don't like marshmallows and I am not allowed to party.
So I'm just going to have to close
this thread for Staff Review.
SIGH ​
 
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