The moral and ethical dillema of enjoying heaven while innocent people suffer in hell.

[ntau352]

I have a hard time accepting that a loving or righteous God would choose to condemn people to eternal suffering without what I can understand to be sufficient reason (e.g. being a non-believer).

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love, and working towards protecting the well-fair of others, it doesn't make any sense that one would also be expected to settle happily in heaven and enjoy pure bliss while others suffer eternally in hell.

Personally, my I would instead choose hell, if only with the hopes of helping to rescue or ease the suffering of its inhabitants. How could one who believes in the teaching's of Jesus choose otherwise?

And if it turns out that our lives on Earth are some sort of test, wouldn't it seem more likely that accepting these supposed workings of God would be to fail?

 

[TedT]

The moral and ethical dillema of enjoying heaven while innocent people suffer in hell.

No innocent will suffer in hell...or on earth.
All suffering is due to the free will choice to sin by the sinner.

Only these guilty of choosing to sin the unforgivable sin while knowing the predicted result if YHWH was ever proven to be our creator GOD will suffer eternal hell.

This statement proves you know nothing of the Christian religion. Are you a bot?

 

[HTacianas]

I have a hard time accepting that a loving or righteous God would choose to condemn people to eternal suffering without what I can understand to be sufficient reason (e.g. being a non-believer).

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love, and working towards protecting the well-fair of others, it doesn't make any sense that one would also be expected to settle happily in heaven and enjoy pure bliss while others suffer eternally in hell.

Personally, my choice would be to instead to choose hell, if only in the hope of helping to rescue or ease the suffering of its inhabitants. How could one who believes in the teaching's of Jesus choose otherwise?

And if it turns out that our lives on Earth are some sort of test, wouldn't it seem more likely that accepting these supposed workings of God would be to fail? Wouldn't the most noble and righteous thing to do under such an interpretation be to protest?

Firstly, God doesn't send anyone to hell for being a non-believer. Anyone who is sent to hell suffers that punishment for the evil they have done in their lives. If we look at a view of the final judgment:

Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Notice that they are judged each one according to his works. The first word of the gospel is repent, meaning to repent of your evil works. And those are works of the flesh, which could be described as acting on the animal nature rather than the spiritual nature.

 

[ntau352]

Firstly, God doesn't send anyone to hell for being a non-believer. Anyone who is sent to hell suffers that punishment for the evil they have done in their lives.

then for someone who does believe non-believers will go to hell, wouldn't it be an act against God for them to accept God under their interpretation?

 

[HTacianas]

then for someone who does believe non-believers will go to hell, wouldn't it be an act against God for them to accept God under their interpretation?

Actually no. But I like the Catholic idea of "the sin of presumption". To presume that a person is going to hell is to sit in judgement of them. It is not our place to sit in judgement, that is reserved to God Himself. But it is also said that "the saints shall judge the world". That is not a responsibility that I want.

You should read the Psalms of the old testament. Preferably using the New International Version. They give a glimpse of the nature of God. Once you get that glimpse you stop worrying about things like who's going to hell and who's not.

 

[ntau352]

Actually no. But I like the Catholic idea of "the sin of presumption". To presume that a person is going to hell is to sit in judgement of them. It is not our place to sit in judgement, that is reserved to God Himself. But it is also said that "the saints shall judge the world". That is not a responsibility that I want.

You should read the Psalms of the old testament. Preferably using the New International Version. They give a glimpse of the nature of God. Once you get that glimpse you stop worrying about things like who's going to hell and who's not.

I don't think it could be possible for me to not worry about who is going to hell and who isn't (assuming I knew this were happening). For example, if I arrived at the gates of heaven, and witnessed another that I felt compassion for and felt didn't deserve it fall to hell, then I assume I would not be comfortable in heaven. I would be disillusioned of it. I would feel the right thing to do would be to go down to hell in hopes to help. And if I look at the teachings of Jesus and envisioning's of God as a loving and righteous God, then I would assume this is what God would expect of me anyways.

 

[HTacianas]

I don't think it could be possible for me to not worry about who is going to hell and who isn't (assuming I knew this were happening). For example, if I arrived at the gates of heaven, and witnessed another that I felt compassion for and felt didn't deserve it fall to hell, then I assume I would not be comfortable in heaven. I would be disillusioned of it. I would feel the right thing to do would be to go down to hell in hopes to help. And if I look at the teachings of Jesus and envisioning's of God as a loving and righteous God, then I would assume this is what God would expect of me anyways.

Trust me, if you think you'd be uncomfortable in heaven you surely wouldn't want to be in hell. I certainly sympathize with your position, but it is not up to you or I to determine someone's fate. We could gather together at a courthouse and protest the sentencing of a murderer to death but we can't change it. That's up to the judge.

 

[David's Harp]

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love, and working towards protecting the well-fair of others, it doesn't make any sense that one would also be expected to settle happily in heaven and enjoy pure bliss while others suffer eternally in hell.

I must admit to having had similar thoughts myself, but then I realized God's Righteousness. That is to say that God is Perfect, Holy and True. There can be no other presence in his midst.

Personally, my I would instead choose hell, if only with the hopes of helping to rescue or ease the suffering of its inhabitants. How could one who believes in the teaching's of Jesus choose otherwise?

Because Hell is a place of righteous judgement, ordained by God Himself, that places the people who will not believe at distance from Him. If you choose Hell, then there is no reprieve.

And if it turns out that our lives on Earth are some sort of test, wouldn't it seem more likely that accepting these supposed workings of God would be to fail?

I'm not sure I understand this statement, but taking it as I read it, we as Christians WILL fail. In a lot of ways. Jesus tells us we will be persecuted for our faith. So if you want to consider selflessness, real selflessness, consider submitting yourself to Christ alone, and the rest will become clear.

 

[ntau352]

Trust me, if you think you'd be uncomfortable in heaven you surely wouldn't want to be in hell. I certainly sympathize with your position, but it is not up to you or I to determine someone's fate. We could gather together at a courthouse and protest the sentencing of a murderer to death but we can't change it. That's up to the judge.

I could never hope to know what it would be like in another plane of existence and how I would feel then. But if I were given the choice first here on Earth, whether to accept a prospective comfortable life in heaven while others were left to eternal suffering, I would choose against that. I understand that it would be the optimal selfish choice. But the brave, selfless, and righteous choice would be to choose hell instead, in my view.

Another way I see this, is that eternity is a long time. To sit in heaven for eternity where there are no problems, while major problems exist, would be a waste. Even eternal suffering sounds better if it is part of a process to solve problems and help others.

 

[zippy2006]

I have a hard time accepting that a loving or righteous God would choose to condemn people to eternal suffering without what I can understand to be sufficient reason (e.g. being a non-believer).

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love, and working towards protecting the well-fair of others, it doesn't make any sense that one would also be expected to settle happily in heaven and enjoy pure bliss while others suffer eternally in hell.

Personally, my I would instead choose hell, if only with the hopes of helping to rescue or ease the suffering of its inhabitants. How could one who believes in the teaching's of Jesus choose otherwise?

And if it turns out that our lives on Earth are some sort of test, wouldn't it seem more likely that accepting these supposed workings of God would be to fail?

You are talking about something quite different from what Christians mean by the word "Hell." You think that Hell:

1. Is a place where innocent persons suffer.
2. Is an unjust punishment.
3. Is a place that can be improved.
4. Is a place where one can choose to go if they feel like it, as a matter of whim.

None of this is true of Christian Hell. You must have received an incorrect understanding of the doctrine of Hell.

 

[johnjanuary1984]

If you get to Heaven , God will never allow you to experience pain or sadness ever again. It will be impossible to have thoughts about the damned (Revelation 21:4)

 

[ntau352]

You are talking about something quite different from what Christians mean by the word "Hell." You think that Hell:

1. Is a place where innocent persons suffer.
2. Is an unjust punishment.
3. Is a place that can be improved.
4. Is a place where one can choose to go if they feel like it, as a matter of whim.

None of this is true of Christian Hell. You must have received an incorrect understanding of the doctrine of Hell.

I have seen many different Christian interpretations of Hell, including ones with different ideas about who goes there, what kind of place it is or if it exists at all. From my perspective, there is an uncertainty what it is if it exists, and what I should do with the information presented to me about it in light of my personal feelings.

So I wouldn't assume those 4 points could be taken for certainty, and in the absence of certainty, I would let my conscious guide me, and no matter the threat or promise of reward or punishment, do what I determined was the right thing. At least that is what I would do ideally according to my view. And given the uncertainty, I would also guess that whatever the truth is about God and the afterlife, this would be the right choice.

 

[David's Harp]

I could never hope to know what it would be like in another plane of existence and how I would feel then. But if I were given the choice first here on Earth, whether to accept a prospective comfortable life in heaven while others were left to eternal suffering, I would choose against that. I understand that it would be the optimal selfish choice. But the brave, selfless, and righteous choice would be to choose hell instead, in my view.

Another way I see this, is that eternity is a long time. To sit in heaven for eternity where there are no problems, while major problems exist, would be a waste. Even eternal suffering sounds better if it is part of a process to solve problems and help others.

That is a noble thought. When you realize that Christ has already done this for you, your mind will be blown and your heart will be open.

 

[ntau352]

If you get to Heaven , God will never allow you to experience pain or sadness ever again. It will be impossible to have thoughts about the damned (Revelation 21:4)

If someone offered me a future where I would be incapable of experiencing pain or sadness while those I loved suffered eternal pain and sadness, I would not be inclined to trust in this promise, or accept it. It would sound like a bribe to abandon your humanity and empathy.

 

[johnjanuary1984]

If someone offered me a future where I would be incapable of experiencing pain or sadness while those I loved suffered eternal pain and sadness, I would not be inclined to trust in this promise, or accept it. It would sound like a bribe to abandon your humanity and empathy.

Have you ever read the short story of the rich man and Lazarus??? Its a 1 or 2 minute read.

Luke 16:19-31

 

[zippy2006]

If someone offered me a future where I would be incapable of experiencing pain or sadness while those I loved suffered eternal pain and sadness, I would not be inclined to trust in this promise, or accept it. It would sound like a bribe to abandon your humanity and empathy.

But you are again misrepresenting the Christian doctrine of Hell. Hell is not assenting to innocent suffering as a means to your own happiness (lol).

 

[ntau352]

But you are again misrepresenting the Christian doctrine of Hell. Hell is not assenting to innocent suffering as a means to your own happiness (lol).

I'm sorry if I am misrepresenting. I didn't understand the last sentence you wrote.

 

[ntau352]

Have you ever read the short story of the rich man and Lazarus??? Its a 1 or 2 minute read.

Luke 16:19-31

Hi John. I've read it now. Thanks.

 

[zippy2006]

I'm sorry if I am misrepresenting. I didn't understand the last sentence you wrote.

No problem. I am not accusing you; only noting that you are working with a misrepresentation. There are two basic options here:

A. Christians make a deal with God where they let innocent persons suffer in Hell just so long as they can be happy in Heaven.
B. Those who are saved merely experience the beatitude of Heaven while the damned concurrently experience the pains of Hell.​

Now if post #14 is thinking of (A), then it is basing itself on a misrepresentation of the Christian doctrine of Hell. But if post #14 is thinking of (B), then it is not clear what the problem is. After all, if there is nothing wrong with you enjoying your earthly life while a murderer sits in a jail cell, then it's not clear why those in Heaven would be faced with any kind of a moral dilemma in their analogous situation.

I have seen many different Christian interpretations of Hell...

But my guess is that none of those different interpretations include any of propositions (1), (2), (3), or (4).

 

[Sketcher]

I have a hard time accepting that a loving or righteous God would choose to condemn people to eternal suffering without what I can understand to be sufficient reason (e.g. being a non-believer).

Considering the teachings of Jesus, which pertain to selflessness, unconditional love, and working towards protecting the well-fair of others, it doesn't make any sense that one would also be expected to settle happily in heaven and enjoy pure bliss while others suffer eternally in hell.

Personally, my I would instead choose hell, if only with the hopes of helping to rescue or ease the suffering of its inhabitants. How could one who believes in the teaching's of Jesus choose otherwise?

And if it turns out that our lives on Earth are some sort of test, wouldn't it seem more likely that accepting these supposed workings of God would be to fail?

I prefer the story of the rich man and Lazarus that Jesus told in Luke 16:19-31:

"There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.
And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,
who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'
But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish.
And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.'
And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house--
for I have five brothers--so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"