The monster in us

[Aldebaran]

If a person is a Christian, I understand that we're supposed to be spirit-filled, putting to death the deeds of the flesh, and putting to death the old nature. But don't we all still have that old nature for as long as we live on earth? Well, I got a big taste of that lately, and it was ugly.

Let's just say I really lost my temper (I have anger issues) and I saw a part of myself that I thought would never manifest itself. It reminded me of the test God put Job through with Satan, who claimed that Job would curse God to his face. Well, I didn't go through anything remotely close to what Job did, and I cursed God's name left and right, reasoning that He is control of all things and is therefore responsible for allowing it to happen, seeing what it's doing to me. It felt almost natural to do it in light of what I was feeling, but felt dark and ugly afterward. I felt like I had a monster inside of me that had come to life. How's that for a Christian testimony?

So my question: Can a person be a Christian (saved) and still have episodes like this? I know we can always turn back to God and ask forgiveness, but the idea that a person can become the "monster inside of them" while being a spirit-filled Christian seems like a giant contradiction to me. What do you think?

 

[BryanW92]

If a person is a Christian, I understand that we're supposed to be spirit-filled, putting to death the deeds of the flesh, and putting to death the old nature. But don't we all still have that old nature for as long as we live on earth? Well, I got a big taste of that lately, and it was ugly.

Let's just say I really lost my temper (I have anger issues) and I saw a part of myself that I thought would never manifest itself. It reminded me of the test God put Job through with Satan, who claimed that Job would curse God to his face. Well, I didn't go through anything remotely close to what Job did, and I cursed God's name left and right, reasoning that He is control of all things and is therefore responsible for allowing it to happen, seeing what it's doing to me. It felt almost natural to do it in light of what I was feeling, but felt dark and ugly afterward. I felt like I had a monster inside of me that had come to life. How's that for a Christian testimony?

So my question: Can a person be a Christian (saved) and still have episodes like this? I know we can always turn back to God and ask forgiveness, but the idea that a person can become the "monster inside of them" while being a spirit-filled Christian seems like a giant contradiction to me. What do you think?

Being 100% spirit-filled is called sanctification. Very few of us reach that point in this life. So, our state of being spirit-filled is almost always less than 100%. The good things is that as your "spirit gauge" goes from E to F, the other motivations are crowded out.

 

[gideons300]

Brother, there is so much to say on this subject, but it is critical that we keep the Bible as our truth, no matter how much it may contradict what we have been taught, or even think it possible.

Here is an example. Most all of us have heard that inside each of us is a black dog and a white dog and they are fighting. Which one wins? the one they feed the most.

Sounds great. But....is this what the Bible tells us? No, it is not. Here is what God says. He tells us that if Christ is in us. we are no longer in the flesh, the old nature. He tells us that sin no longer has dominion over us, for we have been delivered from the power of darkness and have been changed... past tense.. into children of light. He has told us that we cannot serve two masters, that a good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit. He tells us that He will not allow us to be tempted above our ability to say no. He tells us that we have been given shields of faith that WILL quench every single arrow shot at us by satan.

He tells us that as believers, it is our reasonable service to walk as living sacrifices. He tells us that we died...past tense... and our life is now hid with Christ.

Whoa. Amazing God. Now, what does that mean? It means the black dog is DEAD. Now here is where it gets dicey. Do we walk in these truths? Do we experience them? Do we see others enjoying such walks? No, we do not. We say we believe the Bible, but do we?

There are but two reasons we are not walking where sin has no more dominion over us, and they are interlinked. They are unyieldedness and unbelief. You see, all these things are true of us right this minute, but there is a blockage. Our faith must become NOW faith, for Jesus said when you pray, believe that you receive them (NOW) and you shall have them (future). True faith grabs hold of God's promises and IF we continue in His word, he has promised to set us free indeed.

Paul summed up all this in Romans 6. He said that there are tow things we MUST know.

1) When Christ died, so did our old "us".

2) When Christ rose fro the dead, so did we rise to newness of life.

We are not becoming new creatures over time. We are not slowing shedding our old nature and growing into our new one. That is the path we have all tread, but in these last days God is awakening us from our sleep and opening our eyes to the truth. We ARE light.

So why do we not walk as children of light? Because our shields of faith are not up to put out satan's flaming arrows. He accuses, we listen and nod our heads. he tempts and we bite the apple again, for we have not done the one thing He asks of us after knowing the two truths above.

And what is it that He asks of to do? What is the last tumbler in the lock that will open the floodgates of Heaven and transform His bride from a splintered lukewarm religious organization into a bride without spot or wrinkle?

We have failed to understand that to partake of these truths and the blessings He has promised are ours, we MUST give ourselves to Him in oure weakness, and reckon ourselves to be dead to sin, dead to the old us, and reckon that we are alive as new creatures in Christ.

We have all been given victory, every single one of us that love the light. But it has, up till now been a nicely wrapped present in our hands, and the robe of righteousness, the armor we have been provided, has not yet been put on.

When we finally are desperate enough to cry out to Him to breathe on our faith and make it spring forth to new life, our God will answer, and the church, a shadow od what it once was in the book of Acts, will be reborn, rebirthed, and of all men, we will be the most surprised at what our God can do inside us.

I pray that these words hit their mark. The old angry sinful, lust bound, pride filled, self loving US is dead. Jesus has made you wholly a new creature. PAST TENSE. Why do we not enjoy it yet? It has not been mixed with faith...yet.

It is the very heart you display, a hatred of that part of you that dishonors God with anger, that is the heart our Lord looks for. It is when we are broken and hungry, and come to Him with that little seed of faith He has given each one of us, and plant it.... believe what He said is true, no matter what the mirror may show us, that we will feel something stirring deep within us, something different, something powerful, something REAL, and brother, that is simply the beginning.

We are told in Revelation 19 that in the last days, His saints will learn the secret of becoming overcomers. And what is that? They will lean to combine the blood of the Lamb with the words of our testimony.

And what is our testimony but the truth? The truth is the black dog in us is dead. Not dying. DEAD. And it is as we hold fast to that truth, that we will see the new nature begin to grow up inside us and begin to fill us with fruits we have not labored for. They will simply come naturally.

Can we fall as we grab hold of these truths? Yes. Like a toddler just learning to walk, indeed we can fall, for our faith is weak and trembling. Bit like the good Father He is, He lifts us up as we repent and turn back to Him, and says to us... "Now, believe again."

This is the good fight of faith we were destined for. The end of this fight is that we become established in this faith of who we are in Him, unshakable, immovable, full of the very character of the one we love.

Can our God be THAT good? Oh, yes, praise God, indeed He can... and is!
The black dog is dead. Long live the king inside us, new creatures, His possession. THAT is who we are, and as we believe it, we will see satan himself tremble as another son of God discovers that God who has always been inside him, an overcoming new creature, light, with no part dark.

Many blessings,

Gideon

 

[Steeno7]

If a person is a Christian, I understand that we're supposed to be spirit-filled, putting to death the deeds of the flesh, and putting to death the old nature. But don't we all still have that old nature for as long as we live on earth?

Not old nature, the flesh (sarx). The flesh will always be with us, and it doesn't improve or get any better. The flesh is not redeemable.

So my question: Can a person be a Christian (saved) and still have episodes like this?

Yep.

 

[Free at Calvary]

If a person is a Christian, I understand that we're supposed to be spirit-filled, putting to death the deeds of the flesh, and putting to death the old nature. But don't we all still have that old nature for as long as we live on earth? Well, I got a big taste of that lately, and it was ugly.

Let's just say I really lost my temper (I have anger issues) and I saw a part of myself that I thought would never manifest itself. It reminded me of the test God put Job through with Satan, who claimed that Job would curse God to his face. Well, I didn't go through anything remotely close to what Job did, and I cursed God's name left and right, reasoning that He is control of all things and is therefore responsible for allowing it to happen, seeing what it's doing to me. It felt almost natural to do it in light of what I was feeling, but felt dark and ugly afterward. I felt like I had a monster inside of me that had come to life. How's that for a Christian testimony?

So my question: Can a person be a Christian (saved) and still have episodes like this? I know we can always turn back to God and ask forgiveness, but the idea that a person can become the "monster inside of them" while being a spirit-filled Christian seems like a giant contradiction to me. What do you think?

I like your testimony. It's real, genuine, true towards God...full of weakness and full of mercy. I can identify with the journey.

It would be nice if we were reborn grown and fully mature. It would be nice if putting on the new man did not require being washed, purified, sanctified, against the flesh and the sin of it.

I too know from experience the shock of seeing the monster raise its head after thinking it was vanquished, but that monser is not me, and neither is it you.

I also have had trials of faith (nothing like Job's) that made me angry with God. I would tell God he's a sadist, he doesn't exist, I hate him, etc etc. God never got angry, but with patience kept helping me to understand his way in Christ, kept strengthening, kept loving....he kept on being God.

Another experience I can never forget was after 10 years walking with the Lord, I got angry with someone whose action caused me to lose help I was depending on. In anger I said to her, God bless you, but my intention was God punish you. When I left the office I was shaking with disbelief at what I had done. I had been practicing peace and charity and had seen changes in my heart, but the incident told me loud and clear I had not arrived.

It's been five years since and I'm still not perfect, but I know Jesus is mine and that God is faithful even when we are not.

God won't let you go, and I doubt you'll be able to deny him for long. So gird up your loins brother, harden not your heart, and harken to the voice of his word.

 

[Bramwell]

None of us are infallible. Even as Christians, we all have times when we get "out of the Spirit". That's what it sounds like with your described incident, Aldebaran; and while it's good that you feel convicted by your sin in that instance, it's important that you not feel condemned about it either. If you are sorry about what you did, and have asked God for forgiveness, thanks to Christ's sacrifice, you can have forgiveness. Just receive it!

The Bible says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. It's important to strive for perfection, though also to realize that we constantly fall short of this. We are in dire need of God's grace and mercy, as none of us can be justified on the basis of our works alone.

And this is not a false grace doctrine I'm promoting. No, by all means, let's try our best not to sin. That's the goal to aim for.

We just need to remember that none of us is perfect, and God loves us despite our faults. If we try our best, and ask for forgiveness when we fall, God is faithful and just to forgive us, and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

 

[Aldebaran]

Thank you all for your words of support! This whole sin thing really sucks to have in us. It sure will be nice when it is dead and buried someday.

 

[CGL1023]

If a person is a Christian, I understand that we're supposed to be spirit-filled, putting to death the deeds of the flesh, and putting to death the old nature. But don't we all still have that old nature for as long as we live on earth? Well, I got a big taste of that lately, and it was ugly.

Let's just say I really lost my temper (I have anger issues) and I saw a part of myself that I thought would never manifest itself. It reminded me of the test God put Job through with Satan, who claimed that Job would curse God to his face. Well, I didn't go through anything remotely close to what Job did, and I cursed God's name left and right, reasoning that He is control of all things and is therefore responsible for allowing it to happen, seeing what it's doing to me. It felt almost natural to do it in light of what I was feeling, but felt dark and ugly afterward. I felt like I had a monster inside of me that had come to life. How's that for a Christian testimony?

So my question: Can a person be a Christian (saved) and still have episodes like this? I know we can always turn back to God and ask forgiveness, but the idea that a person can become the "monster inside of them" while being a spirit-filled Christian seems like a giant contradiction to me. What do you think?

You said, "If a person is a Christian, I understand that we're supposed to be spirit-filled, putting to death the deeds of the flesh, and putting to death the old nature ..."


I understand that you're saying people who are saved are Spirit-filled automatically. From that you conclude that you are being led by the Spirit (Rom 8:14-17)and fruits of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-25) automatically follow. The lack of victory in the lives of large segments of Christendom show that becoming a temple of the Holy Spirit is a process.

I am taught that after being saved, which is to be cleansed by the blood of Christ, one has then become a fit temple for the Holy Spirit. Then, as the Holy Spirit is God, He must be asked to take up residence in the believer according to Luke 11:9-13. Jesus declares himself to be the baptiser (Mat 3:11) thru which one receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit, when they ask for it. This is just the start of the process of having power to crucify the flesh. One could now reasonably believe that they indeed are able to "do all things through Christ who strengthens them" (Phil 4:13)

 

[Bobinator]

If a person is a Christian, I understand that we're supposed to be spirit-filled, putting to death the deeds of the flesh, and putting to death the old nature. But don't we all still have that old nature for as long as we live on earth? Well, I got a big taste of that lately, and it was ugly.

Let's just say I really lost my temper (I have anger issues) and I saw a part of myself that I thought would never manifest itself. It reminded me of the test God put Job through with Satan, who claimed that Job would curse God to his face. Well, I didn't go through anything remotely close to what Job did, and I cursed God's name left and right, reasoning that He is control of all things and is therefore responsible for allowing it to happen, seeing what it's doing to me. It felt almost natural to do it in light of what I was feeling, but felt dark and ugly afterward. I felt like I had a monster inside of me that had come to life. How's that for a Christian testimony?

So my question: Can a person be a Christian (saved) and still have episodes like this? I know we can always turn back to God and ask forgiveness, but the idea that a person can become the "monster inside of them" while being a spirit-filled Christian seems like a giant contradiction to me. What do you think?

I appreciate your testimony. I'm sure many of us have had similar episodes. I'll remember it whenever someone says Christians can't have demons...

 

[Steeno7]

I appreciate your testimony. I'm sure many of us have had similar episodes. I'll remember it whenever someone says Christians can't have demons...

It's not a demon, it's the flesh.

 

[walkinginthelightnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br6...I, I GET A LITTLE CLOSER (X8) [/FONT][/COLOR]

 

[Donkick]

There is a great book you should read called Holiness by J.C. Ryle, I'm going through it right now with our mens group. It talks very specifically about what the bible says about Salvation, Justification, and sanctification. Perfection and sinfulness. It's very good!!!

 

[Emmy]

Dear Aldebaran. Yes, we can be monsters, and we will be forgiven if we repent. It will not happen overnight, and Jesus gave us good advice.
In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus told us: " The first and great Commandment is:
Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 4, Jesus points out:
" On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. What do we do?
In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: " ask and you shall receive," we ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour:
(all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends) God will see our loving efforts, and God will approve and bless us. We keep asking for Love and Joy,
then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbours. We might stumble and forget sometimes, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on loving and caring.
The Bible tells us to " Repent and be Born Again," we stop being selfish and unloving, and start loving and caring. That might not come easy to us, but God wants it from us. Love is very catching, and Love is our strong weapon.
With love we will overcome all anger and wrong behaviour, the Holy Spirit
will help and guide us, Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. Let us just ask and receive, then thank God, and share all Love and Joy with all around us. Life will be filled with Joy, and the world around us will know that we love God and want to please God. We ask and receive, then thank God and show the world what Love can do: kill the monster in us and chase Satan away with LOVE. I say this with love, Aldebaran.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[ron4shua]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1dxK-kqjtY

 

[jmount78]

For me, I walk the path, fall, and ask for forgiveness. It doesn't mean that I don't feel regret, but I know that I have to continue reading the word and seeking fellowship at Church and now on these forums.

 

[Aldebaran]

Dear Aldebaran. Yes, we can be monsters, and we will be forgiven if we repent. It will not happen overnight, and Jesus gave us good advice.
In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus told us: " The first and great Commandment is:
Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 4, Jesus points out:
" On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. What do we do?
In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: " ask and you shall receive," we ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour:
(all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends) God will see our loving efforts, and God will approve and bless us. We keep asking for Love and Joy,
then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbours. We might stumble and forget sometimes, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on loving and caring.
The Bible tells us to " Repent and be Born Again," we stop being selfish and unloving, and start loving and caring. That might not come easy to us, but God wants it from us. Love is very catching, and Love is our strong weapon.
With love we will overcome all anger and wrong behaviour, the Holy Spirit
will help and guide us, Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. Let us just ask and receive, then thank God, and share all Love and Joy with all around us. Life will be filled with Joy, and the world around us will know that we love God and want to please God. We ask and receive, then thank God and show the world what Love can do: kill the monster in us and chase Satan away with LOVE. I say this with love, Aldebaran.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Thank you for your kind words, Emmy! It is a good thing God will overcome our weaknesses. I certainly can't.

 

[kidwboro]

If a person is a Christian, I understand that we're supposed to be spirit-filled, putting to death the deeds of the flesh, and putting to death the old nature. But don't we all still have that old nature for as long as we live on earth? Well, I got a big taste of that lately, and it was ugly.

Let's just say I really lost my temper (I have anger issues) and I saw a part of myself that I thought would never manifest itself. It reminded me of the test God put Job through with Satan, who claimed that Job would curse God to his face. Well, I didn't go through anything remotely close to what Job did, and I cursed God's name left and right, reasoning that He is control of all things and is therefore responsible for allowing it to happen, seeing what it's doing to me. It felt almost natural to do it in light of what I was feeling, but felt dark and ugly afterward. I felt like I had a monster inside of me that had come to life. How's that for a Christian testimony?

So my question: Can a person be a Christian (saved) and still have episodes like this? I know we can always turn back to God and ask forgiveness, but the idea that a person can become the "monster inside of them" while being a spirit-filled Christian seems like a giant contradiction to me. What do you think?

It could very well be devils; and I only say this because I have the same kind of rage in me. We might be in the same camp as Legion, and other people vexed by devils.

The only thing I can recommend is what I've been doing the past year or so: whenever you feel strong ungodly desires, write down exactly how you feel on a small slip of paper, then immediately cut it into tiny pieces. It's an effective way of making your sins known to you. As David said, "My sin is ever before me." You can arrive to that same truth without going through what he went through.

Write down whatever your heart's desire. No one else is going to see. God already knows what's in your heart before you even write it. Don't worry about it being too horrific. Like I said, God already knows what's in your heart even before you write it. Make your sins known to you. Put the pedal to the metal. Let the Spirit search your heart out.

I've amazed myself at some of the horrific stuff I wrote down on those little papers. It has been a very cleansing experience each time I do it. I still have lots of evil stuff in me. But God has blessed me tremendously in these endeavors; otherwise, I would be in big trouble.

Never give in to any doctrine that says we don't have evil things in our hearts.
The Lord Jesus says "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

Jeremiah 17:9 says "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? "

 

[Aldebaran]

It could very well be devils; and I only say this because I have the same kind of rage in me. We might be in the same camp as Legion, and other people vexed by devils.

The only thing I can recommend is what I've been doing the past year or so: whenever you feel strong ungodly desires, write down exactly how you feel on a small slip of paper, then immediately cut it into tiny pieces. It's an effective way of making your sins known to you. As David said, "My sin is ever before me." You can arrive to that same truth without going through what he went through.

Write down whatever your heart's desire. No one else is going to see. God already knows what's in your heart before you even write it. Don't worry about it being too horrific. Like I said, God already knows what's in your heart even before you write it. Make your sins known to you. Put the pedal to the metal. Let the Spirit search your heart out.

I've amazed myself at some of the horrific stuff I wrote down on those little papers. It has been a very cleansing experience each time I do it. I still have lots of evil stuff in me. But God has blessed me tremendously in these endeavors; otherwise, I would be in big trouble.

Never give in to any doctrine that says we don't have evil things in our hearts.
The Lord Jesus says "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

Jeremiah 17:9 says "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? "

I might just give your idea a try. I cringe at some of the stuff I'd be writing down though. I'd probably write so many ugly things that I'd then be thinking, "hmmmm, so this is what I am and what I have inside of me after 25 years of being saved. Where's all that good fruit I'm supposed to be producing as a Christian? Not much fruit here!"

 

[BryanW92]

I might just give your idea a try. I cringe at some of the stuff I'd be writing down though. I'd probably write so many ugly things that I'd then be thinking, "hmmmm, so this is what I am and what I have inside of me after 25 years of being saved. Where's all that good fruit I'm supposed to be producing as a Christian? Not much fruit here!"

Most Christians do not produce an abundance of fruit. We strive to be a tree that is laden with fruit and then we begin to think that being anything less is nothing. People bring up the story of Jesus and the fig tree. Remember that it had no fruit, not just a lack of abundance.

So, instead of asking where all of that good fruit is, ask if you have any good fruit. You probably do have some. Be thankful for the fruit you produce instead of lamenting on how it isn't enough. A single stalk of corn doesn't produce a lot of food, but a field of corn does.

 

[Norah63]

That post from Free at Calvary really blessed me.
These forums can be fellowship anytime of the day.