"The mental structure of fundamentalists is violence in the name of God." - Francis I

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

Rome deems "fundamentalists" [whether actual physical killers, or are simply heretics [their def.]] is a/are "violent" person:

"A fundamentalist group, although it may not kill anyone, although it may not strike anyone, is violent. The mental structure of fundamentalists is violence in the name of God." - Full text of Pope Francis’ Interview with ‘La Vanguardia’
​

Is this new news? No, for Papal Rome cannot change its Leopard spots [Revelation 2:21; 13:1-18; Jeremiah 13:23], for in regards to heretics:

"...Pertinacious adhesion to a doctrine contradictory to a point of faith clearly defined by the Church is heresy pure and simple, heresy in the first degree. …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Heresy] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Heresy

[CCC] " … 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11 ..." [Roman Catholic Catechism; PART THREE: LIFE IN CHRIST; SECTION TWO THE TEN COMMANDMENTS; CHAPTER ONE YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; Article 1 THE FIRST COMMANDMENT; I. "You Shall Worship the Lord Your God and Him Only Shall You Serve"; Ending Notation 11, refers to Canon 751 of Roman Catholic Canon Law] - Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText
​

Notice, the position, which Rome stands upon in its own theologically self-defined position:

"Summa Theologica: Article 3. Whether heretics ought to be tolerated? ..."

"… I answer that, With regard to heretics two points must be observed: one, on their own side; the other, on the side of the Church. On their own side there is the sin, whereby they deserve not only to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death. For it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death. ..."

"...after that, if he is yet stubborn, the Church no longer hoping for his conversion, looks to the salvation of others, by excommunicating him and separating him from the Church, and furthermore delivers him to the secular tribunal to be exterminated thereby from the world by death. ..."

"...Yet if heretics be altogether uprooted by death, this is not contrary to Our Lord's command ..."

"...But when they fall again, after having been received, this seems to prove them to be inconstant in faith, wherefore when they return again, they are admitted to Penance, but are not delivered from the pain of death. ..."

"...Reply to Objection 1. ... she presumes that those who relapse after being once received, are not sincere in their return; hence she does not debar them from the way of salvation, but neither does she protect them from the sentence of death. …" [Summa Theologica The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas
Second and Revised Edition, 1920
Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province
Online Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight
Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol.
Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii.
APPROBATIO ORDINIS
Nihil Obstat. F. Raphael Moss, O.P., S.T.L. and F. Leo Moore, O.P., S.T.L.
Imprimatur. F. Beda Jarrett, O.P., S.T.L., A.M., Prior Provincialis Angliæ
MARIÆ IMMACULATÆ - SEDI SAPIENTIÆ] - SUMMA THEOLOGICA: Heresy (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 11)
​

Time to understand a definition of a word "Abeyance":

"ABEYANCE ...

…Def: 1 : a lapse in succession during which there is no person in whom a title is vested; 2 : temporary inactivity : suspension ..." [Merrian-Webster's Online Dictionary; "Abeyance"] - Abeyance - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary or http://www.britannica.com/bps/dictionary?query=abeyance
​

So, what will Papal Rome do when it receives plenary power again, as it had before its deadly wound of AD 1798 by the very power which stood on its behalf in AD 508?

"...Like other powers and rights, the power of rejecting heresy adapts itself in practice to circumstances of time and place, and, especially, of social and political conditions. ...

"...The ancient discipline charged the bishops with the duty of searching out the heresies in their diocese and checking the progress of error by any means at their command. ..."

"...In some particularly aggravated cases sentence of death was pronounced upon heretics..."

"...The Synod of Verona (1184) imposed on bishops the duty to search out the heretics in their dioceses and to hand them over to the secular power. Other synods, and the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) under Pope Innocent III, repeated and enforced this decree, especially the Synod of Toulouse (1229), which established inquisitors in every parish (one priest and two laymen). ..."

"...The present-day legislation against heresy has lost nothing of its ancient severity; but the penalties on heretics are now only of the spiritual order; all the punishments which require the intervention of the secular arm have fallen into abeyance. ..."

"...To restrain and bring back her rebellious sons the Church uses both her own spiritual power and the secular power at her command. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Heresy] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Heresy
​

...for "all the punishments which require the secular arm" at "her command" have merely fallen into "abeyance" [merely a temporary cessation, until "she" can use it openly again], but have "lost nothing of its ancient severity" in this "present-day legislation against heresy"... for the Roman Catholic Church, in this practice of condemning "heretics" to "death", actually hides itself, biding its time and "...adapts itself in practice to circumstances of time and place...", until "she" may condemn to death whom "she" deems as heretics openly.

NOT GONE, NOT DONE AWAY, NOT REMOVED! The punishment for HERESY (as defined by Rome) is still VERY REAL, and is only biding its time, waiting to resurface in it all of its UNMITIGATED FURY, for as the previous quote given says, "...adapts itself in practice to circumstances of time and place..." and as soon as it can be drawn upon in FULL FORCE, she will!

The Bible declares that it is going to happen again soon, The Second Beast [Apostate Christendom of the United States of America] makes the Image [Church/State combination, enforcing religion through Law, like a Sunday Law] to that of the First Beast, and will be the "sword" in "her" hand.

Notice, the words of the Messenger of the Lord:

"And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And had she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy. Let the principle once be established in the United States that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured." - The Great Controversy; Page 581
​

Rome states that such heretics, are not "innocent" [but guilty], and therefore have no "right to life" guarantee, since they are "violent" opposers [of Rome, of the Roman defined "common good", iow 'humanism'], even if only doctrinally. They are worse than a "rabid beast", and so must be put down by any means, lest an infection spread. This is their present, ever-abiding and current theology, and also from their Canon Law ["just penalty"].

“...C. XLVII. Non sunt homicidae qui adversus excommunicatos zelo matris ecclesiae armantur ..."

“...They are not to be accounted murderers who, zealous for the mother church, have killed excommunicated persons. ...” [“The Decretum of Gratian Part 2 Case 23 Question 5 chapter 47-48”; Decreti Secunda Pars Causa XXIII. Quest. V. c. 47-49; [47,48 specifically; section 49 given in 'defense' of these actions/reasons]] –
Columbia University Libraries: Corpus iuris canonici. (v. 1) AND Columbia University Libraries: Corpus iuris canonici. (v. 1)

"... The Catholic Church is a respecter of conscience and of liberty... she believes and professes that “faith is a work of persuasion, not of force, fides suandenda est, non imponenda.” She has, and she loudly proclaims that she has, a “horror of blood”. Nevertheless when confronted by heresy she does not content herself with persuasion; arguments of an intellectual and moral order appear to her insufficient and she has recourse to force, to corporal punishment, to torture. She creates [p. 182 → p. 183] tribunals like those of the Inquisition, she calls the laws of State to her aid, if necessary she encourages a crusade, or a religious war and all her “horror of blood” practically culminates into urging the secular power to shed it, which proceeding is almost more odious – for it is less frank – than shedding it herself. Especially did she act thus in the sixteenth century with regard to Protestants. Not content to reform morally, to preach by example, to convert people by eloquent and holy missionaries, she lit in Italy, in the Low Countries, and above all in Spain the funeral piles of the Inquisition. In France under Francis I. And Henry II., in England under Mary Tudor, she tortured the heretics, whilst both in France and Germany during the second half of the sixteenth and the first half of the seventeenth century is she did not actually begin, at anyrate she encouraged and actively sided the religious wars. No one will deny that we have here a great scandal to our contemporaries excepting to a certain class still having few adherents which theoretically – but theory often gives way before facts – affects a certain taste for violence and bloodshed." [The Renaissance and Protestantism; Lectures given at the Catholic Institute of Paris January to March 1904; By Alfred Baudrillart; Rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris; With a prefatory letter from H. E. Cardinal Perraud of the French Academy; Authorised Translation By Mrs. Philip Gibbs; Chapter VII [7]; On the use of force by the Catholic Church against Protestants – The Inquisition in Italy and in Spain – Religious wars – Protestant intolerance.] – http://ia600204.us.archive.org/3/items/catholicchurchre00bauduoft/catholicchurchre00bauduoft.pdf

[The International Catholic Library – Edited by Rev. J. Wilhelm, D.D., Ph.D. Joint Author of the Manual of Catholic Theology.

IV [4] . The Catholic Church. The Renaissance. Protestantism. By Alfred Baudrillart, Rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris. Translated by Mrs Philip Gibbs. Price 7s. 6d.

London; Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co. Ltd. Dryden House, Gerrard Street, W. 1907

Nihil Obstat
J. Wilhelm, S.T.D.
Censor deputatus

Imprimi potest
[Maltese Cross] Gulielmus
Episcopus Arindelensis
Vicarius Generalis

Westmonasterii
die 11 Martii 1907
http://www.archive.org/details/catholicchurchre00bauduoft ]

"... That the Church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind, will be questioned by no Protestant who has a competent knowledge of history. The memorials, indeed, of many of her persecutions are now so scanty, that it is impossible to form a complete conception of the multitude of her victims, and it is quite certain that no powers of imagination can adequately realise their sufferings. Llorente, who had free access to the archives of the Spanish Inquisition, assures us that by that tribunal alone more than 31,000 persons were burnt, and more than 290,000 condemned to punishments less severe than death. [1.] ..." [History of the Rise and Influence of the spirit of Rationalism in Europe Vol . II [2]; By W.E.H. Lecky, M.A. Revised Edition. In Two Volumes. New York and London; D. Appleton and Company 1919. pp 40; [1.] Llorente, Hist. De l'Inquisition, tom. iv. [4] pp 271,272. "...Llorente having been himself at one time secretary in the Inquisition, and having during the occupation by the French had access to all the secret papers of the tribunal, will always be the highest authority. ..."] - http://files.libertyfund.org/files/1667/Lecky_1341.02.pdf
​

 

[yogosans14]

A 7th day Adventist making a thread about Catholics??? Shocker.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

SGS - Isn't there enough of this going on lately? If you would like to reconsider this thread I'm sure a lot of people would be very happy.

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

A 7th day Adventist making a thread about Catholics??? Shocker.

It is actually about freedom of Government [Republicanism] and freedom of Religion [true Protestantism], a State without a King and a Church without a Pope, indeed separation of Church and State [which Rome has ever declared anathema to its own doctrines].

A word of that which is coming, The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. [Ecclesiastes 1:9]

"Christ in His earthly life gave an example that all can safely follow. He appreciates His flock, and He wants no power set over them that will restrict their freedom in His service. He has never placed man as a ruler over His heritage. True Bible religion will lead to self-control, not to control of one another. As a people we need a larger measure of the Holy Spirit, that we may bear the solemn message that God has given us, without exaltation." - Testimonies for the Church Volume 9, p. 275.4

"“And he had two horns like a lamb.” The lamb-like horns indicate youth, innocence, and gentleness, fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as “coming up” in 1798. The Christian exiles who first fled to America, sought an asylum from royal oppression and priestly intolerance, and they determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. The Declaration of Independence sets forth the great truth that “all men are created equal,” and endowed with the inalienable right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” And the Constitution guarantees to the people the right of self-government, providing that representatives elected by the popular vote shall enact and administer the laws. Freedom of religious faith was also granted, every man being permitted to worship God according to the dictates of his conscience. Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and down-trodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth." - The Great Controversy 1888, p. 441.1

"Any fallacy is likely to be received by a people who make void the law of God. There is a crisis just ahead of those who are acting on a short-sighted policy. The rulers of the land will take their position above the great Creator of the world. The claims of a false sabbath will be brought to the front, and the rulers and the people will act upon the principle of a short-sighted policy. The false sabbath, the first day of the week, will be accepted, and the rulers will unite with the man of sin to restore his lost ascendancy. Laws enforcing the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath will bring about a national apostasy from the principles of republicanism upon which the government has been founded. The religion of the Papacy will be accepted by the rulers, and the law of God will be made void." - Manuscript Releases Volume Twenty [Nos. 1420-1500], p. 14.2
​

Understand, according to Rome:

" … Can. 1404 The First See is judged by no one. …" [Roman Catholic Canon Law; BOOK VII PROCESSES; Part I. TRIALS IN GENERAL (Cann. 1400 – 1403); TITLE I. THE COMPETENT FORUM (Cann. 1404 - 1416)] - Code of Canon Law - IntraText

" … Can. 1406 §1. If the prescript of ⇒ can. 1404 is violated, the acts and decisions are considered as not to have been placed.

§2. In the cases mentioned in ⇒ can. 1405, the incompetence of other judges is absolute. …" [Roman Catholic Canon Law; BOOK VII PROCESSES; Part I. TRIALS IN GENERAL (Cann. 1400 – 1403); TITLE I. THE COMPETENT FORUM (Cann. 1404 - 1416)] - Code of Canon Law - IntraText

" … Can. 1405 §1. It is solely the right of the Roman Pontiff himself to judge in the cases mentioned in ⇒ can. 1401:

1/ those who hold the highest civil office of a state;

2/ cardinals;

3/ legates of the Apostolic See and, in penal cases, bishops;

4/ other cases which he has called to his own judgment.

§2. A judge cannot review an act or instrument confirmed specifically (in forma specifica) by the Roman Pontiff without his prior mandate.

§3. Judgment of the following is reserved to the Roman Rota:

1/ bishops in contentious matters, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 1419, §2;

2/ an abbot primate or abbot superior of a monastic congregation and a supreme moderator of religious institutes of pontifical right;

3/ dioceses or other physical or juridic ecclesiastical persons which do not have a superior below the Roman Pontiff. …" [Roman Catholic Canon Law; BOOK VII PROCESSES; Part I. TRIALS IN GENERAL (Cann. 1400 – 1403); TITLE I. THE COMPETENT FORUM (Cann. 1404 - 1416)] - Code of Canon Law - IntraText
​

Do you not know that Scripture foretells these things? Read Daniel 3 [think first clause of the 1st Amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ... "] and Daniel 6 [think second clause of the 1st Amendment, "...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ..."], then Read Daniel 7 in conjunction with Revelation 13, wherein there is a power [Apostate Christians of the United States] which makes an "Image", a system of combined Church/State, with enforcement of religious law, like as unto the First Beast [Papal Rome]. It will "cause" [force] all to "worship" the first Beast.

A Beast is a Kingdom/State power. It shall "speak" through its legislation/laws. It had Two horns like a Lamb, the two great principles of Christ Jesus -"...Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."

Rome says, 'No.', for they teach the following to be heretical error and anti-thetical to its own interests:

"... 20. The ecclesiastical power ought not to exercise its authority without the permission and assent of the civil government. -- Allocution "Meminit unusquisque," Sept. 30, 1861. ..."

"... 24. The Church has not the power of using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect. -- Apostolic Letter "Ad Apostolicae," Aug. 22, 1851. ..."

"... 27. The sacred ministers of the Church and the Roman pontiff are to be absolutely excluded from every charge and dominion over temporal affairs. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862. ..."

"... 54. Kings and princes are not only exempt from the jurisdiction of the Church, but are superior to the Church in deciding questions of jurisdiction. -- Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851. …"

"... 55. The Church ought to be separated from the .State, and the State from the Church. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852. …"

"... 75. The children of the Christian and Catholic Church are divided amongst themselves about the compatibility of the temporal with the spiritual power. -- "Ad Apostolicae," Aug. 22, 1851. …"

"... 76. The abolition of the temporal power of which the Apostolic See is possessed would contribute in the greatest degree to the liberty and prosperity of the Church. -- Allocutions "Quibus quantisque," April 20, 1849, "Si semper antea," May 20, 1850. ..."

"... 77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. -- Allocution "Nemo vestrum," July 26, 1855. ..."

"... 78. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852. ..." - [THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX] - THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX
​

And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. Revelation 13:12

Rome has already been seen clamoring for a Moral Authority upon the monetary systems of the world. Whom do you think they mean for it?

Read Daniel 11:43 and Revelation 13:3,17:

But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. Daniel 11:43

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. Revelation 13:3

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Revelation 13:17
​

Egypt, represents the worldly/world, those that are carnal-hearted. The Libyans, represent the poor, and the Ethiopians the destitute of light, in black darkness, in other words, those without/rejecting, etc the Gospel, and are the multitudes of the earth/Egypt.

They, being deceived, and in transgression, will look to Rome [even as their attention is already turning], for it will seem to have all of the Light, and will seem to have all of the Wealth and Prosperity, and will seem blessed of God and have miracles upon its behalf, but they know not, it is doubly cursed, to enter perdition and to be utterly destroyed by fire.

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

Written in the 1800's...

"...Romanism is now regarded by Protestants with far greater favor than in former years. In those countries where Catholicism is not in the ascendancy, and the papists are taking a conciliatory course in order to gain influence, there is an increasing indifference concerning the doctrines that separate the reformed churches from the papal hierarchy; the opinion is gaining ground that, after all, we do not differ so widely upon vital points as has been supposed, and that a little concession on our part will bring us into a better understanding with Rome. The time was when Protestants placed a high value upon the liberty of conscience which had been so dearly purchased. They taught their children to abhor popery and held that to seek harmony with Rome would be disloyalty to God. But how widely different are the sentiments now expressed!

The defenders of the papacy declare that the church has been maligned, and the Protestant world are inclined to accept the statement. Many urge that it is unjust to judge the church of today by the abominations and absurdities that marked her reign during the centuries of ignorance and darkness. They excuse her horrible cruelty as the result of the barbarism of the times and plead that the influence of modern civilization has changed her sentiments. ..." - The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White, page 563; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened"

"...Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Roman Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time, seeing that the Protestant churches are paying her homage in their acceptance of the false sabbath and that they are preparing to enforce it by the very means which she herself employed in bygone days. Those who reject the light of truth will yet seek the aid of this self-styled infallible power to exalt an institution that originated with her. How readily she will come to the help of Protestants in this work it is not difficult to conjecture. Who understands better than the papal leaders how to deal with those who are disobedient to the church?

The Roman Catholic Church, with all its ramifications throughout the world, forms one vast organization under the control, and designed to serve the interests, of the papal see. Its millions of communicants, in every country on the globe, are instructed to hold themselves as bound in allegiance to the pope. Whatever their nationality or their government, they are to regard the authority of the church as above all other. Though they may take the oath pledging their loyalty to the state, yet back of this lies the vow of obedience to Rome, absolving them from every pledge inimical to her interests.

History testifies of her artful and persistent efforts to insinuate herself into the affairs of nations; and having gained a foothold, to further her own aims, even at the ruin of princes and people. In the year 1204, Pope Innocent III extracted from Peter II, king of Arragon, the following extraordinary oath: “I, Peter, king of Arragonians, profess and promise to be ever faithful and obedient to my lord, Pope Innocent, to his Catholic successors, and the Roman Church, and faithfully to preserve my kingdom in his obedience, defending the Catholic faith, and persecuting heretical pravity.”—John Dowling, The History of Romanism, b. 5, ch. 6, sec.

55. This is in harmony with the claims regarding the power of the Roman pontiff “that it is lawful for him to depose emperors” and “that he can absolve subjects from their allegiance to unrighteous rulers.”—Mosheim, b. 3, cent. 11, pt. 2, ch. 2, sec. 9, note 17. (See also Appendix note for page 447.)

And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And had she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy. Let the principle once be established in the United States that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured.

God’s word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution. ..." - The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White; pages 580-581; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened"

"...Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.

As spiritualism more closely imitates the nominal Christianity of the day, it has greater power to deceive and ensnare. Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of spiritualism, miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power.

The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church members love what the world loves and are ready to join with them, and Satan determines to unite them in one body and thus strengthen his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of spiritualism. Papists, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this wonder-working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deluded. Papists, Protestants, and worldlings will alike accept the form of godliness without the power, and they will see in this union a grand movement..." - The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White; pages 588; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened"
​

...though not having anything specific to say about the following personages or their relationship with Christ Jesus, or anything in regards to their motives, but please notice the positions held... would anyone say that these are not 'key' positions?

...who is the Supreme Court Justices currently and majority made up of now...

[1] "John G. Roberts, Jr." - Roman Catholic

[2] "Antonin Scalia" - Roman Catholic

[3] "Anthony M. Kennedy" - Roman Catholic

[4] "Clarence Thomas" - Roman Catholic

[5] "Ruth Bader Ginsburg" - Judaism

[6] "Stephen G. Breyer" - Judaism

[7] "Samuel Anthony Alito, Jr." - Roman Catholic

[8] "Sonia Sotomayor" - Roman Catholic

[9] "Elena Kagan" - Conservative Judaism

[10] "Sandra Day O’Connor (Retired)" - Episcopal

[11] "David H. Souter (Retired)" - Episcopal

[12] "John Paul Stevens (Retired)" - Protestantism

...

Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit
"William H. Pryor, Jr." - Roman Catholic

...

Vice President of the United States
"Joseph Robinette "Joe" Biden, Jr. - Roman Catholic

...

61st Speaker of the United States House of Representatives
"John Andrew Boehner" - Roman Catholic

58th Speaker of the United States House of Representatives
"Newton Leroy "Newt" Gingrich" - Roman Catholic

House Minority Leader; 60th Speaker of the United States House of Representatives
"Nancy Patricia D'Alesandro Pelosi" - Roman Catholic

...

Surgeon General of the United States
"Vice Admiral Regina Marcia Benjamin," - Roman Catholic

...

64th Chairman of the Republican National Committee
"Michael Stephen Steele" - Roman Catholic

...


United States Senator; from Massachusetts
"John Forbes Kerry" - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from New Hampshire
"Kelly A. Ayotte" - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from Pennsylvania
"Robert Patrick "Bob" Casey, Jr." - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from Illinois
"Richard Joseph "****" Durbin" - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from North Dakota
"John Henry Hoeven III" - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from Louisiana
"Mary Loretta Landrieu" - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from West Virginia
"Joseph "Joe" Manchin III" - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from Florida
"Marco Antonio Rubio" - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from Pennsylvania
"Patrick Joseph "Pat" Toomey, Sr." - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from Louisiana
"David Bruce Vitter" - Roman Catholic

United States Senator; from Ohio
"George Victor Voinovich" - Roman Catholic

Member of the U.S. House of Representatives; from Georgia's 8th district
"James Creel "Jim" Marshall" - Roman Catholic

Member of the U.S. House of Representatives; from Wisconsin's 1st district
"Paul Davis Ryan" - Roman Catholic

Member of the U.S. House of Representatives; from Ohio's 17th district
"Timothy John "Tim" Ryan" - Roman Catholic

Member of the U.S. House of Representatives; from Mississippi's 4th district
"Gary Eugene "Gene" Taylor" - Roman Catholic

Member of the U.S. House of Representatives; from Pennsylvania's 14th district
"Michael F. "Mike" Doyle" - Roman Catholic

Member of the U.S. House of Representatives; from Mississippi's 4th district
"Steven McCarty Palazzo" - Roman Catholic

34th and 39th Governor of California
"Edmund Gerald "Jerry" Brown, Jr." - Roman Catholic

56th Governor of New York
"Andrew Mark Cuomo" - Roman Catholic

107th Mayor of New York City
"Rudolph William Louis "Rudy" Giuliani" - Roman Catholic

46th Governor of Kansas
"Samuel Dale "Sam" Brownback" - Roman Catholic

73rd Governor of Rhode Island
"Donald L. "Don" Carcieri" - Roman Catholic

55th Governor of New Jersey
"Christopher James "Chris" Christie" - Roman Catholic

47th Governor of Michigan
"Jennifer Granholm" - Roman Catholic

55th Governor of Louisiana
"Piyush "Bobby" Jindal" - Roman Catholic

74th Governor of Maine
"Paul Richard LePage" - Roman Catholic

31st Governor of New Mexico
"Susana Martinez" - Roman Catholic

71st Governor of Virginia
"Robert Francis "Bob" McDonnell" - Roman Catholic

61st Governor of Maryland
"Martin Joseph O'Malley" - Roman Catholic

31st Governor of South Dakota
"Marion Michael "Mike" Rounds" - Roman Catholic

29th Governor of Nevada
"Brian Edward Sandoval" - Roman Catholic

23rd Governor of Montana
"Brian David Schweitzer" - Roman Catholic

54th Mayor of Chicago
"Richard Michael Daley" - Roman Catholic

61st Mayor of New Orleans, Louisiana
"Mitchell Joseph "Mitch" Landrieu" - Roman Catholic

...

38th Governor of California
"Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger" - Roman Catholic

...

...not to mentions the powerful positions of the Chicago and New York Bishoprics, alongside the Vaticans Ambassador to the US, and its permanent observer status at the U.N, and convening in session for the See of Rome.

...not to mention the many other roles in media, news, film, directors, actors, television, music, sports (owners/players), chiefs of police, military, local judges, etc and various other organizations directly operating within the United States, Jesuits (special military/political orders), Opus Dei (political arm, special prelature, directly subservient to the See of Rome), Knights of Columbus (military order), Knights of Malta (military order), various other 'knights' and organizations.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

A 7th day Adventist making a thread about Catholics??? Shocker.

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do........

http://www.christianforums.com/t7407073-12/#post53108360
Interview of SDA Pastor Septic Tank Ministry

I conducted this interview myself after seeing this bus parked close to where I work in Seattle. He seemed like a nice man who is very serious about the Pope stealing the Sabbath, etc. My next interview with him will be on the 1844 subject.

Enjoy.

Viddler.com - Prophecy Bus - Uploaded by pythons



Video review of the exterior of the Bus
Pastor Robus of the Seventh-day Adventist Church bus review part 1 - YouTube

.

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

uploaded by Pythons.........

Thankfully, that particular person [whom you continually cite] is not a Seventh-day Adventist, nor was ever a Pastor thereof, nor is holding any office therein either.

He is simply one, that speaks like a Roman - which teaches to confess ones sins before other men. He is preaching self-purgation, another Roman element.

With that...

Yet, let us now see what Rome and those of the majority American Christian religion are doing:

Pope's Video Fulfills Prophecy - YouTube

And according to this 'Tony Palmer', who has direct contact with Francis I and Kenneth Copeland, among others, to not go along with this movement, is to reject a message sent from God. [just historically search for origins of Jesuitism, and also the same for Freemasonry, and their commonality, even among the rites.]

Did you not know, that to not go along with them, is to be a "Spiritual racist"? See for yourself [watch the intro and outro]:

Bishop Tony Palmer and Pope Francis - The Miracle of Unity Has Begun - YouTube

"Throughout Christendom, Protestantism was menaced by formidable foes. The first triumphs of the Reformation past, Rome summoned new forces, hoping to accomplish its destruction. At this time the order of the Jesuits was created, the most cruel, unscrupulous, and powerful of all the champions of popery. Cut off from earthly ties and human interests, dead to the claims of natural affection, reason and conscience wholly silenced, they knew no rule, no tie, but that of their order, and no duty but to extend its power. (See Appendix.) The gospel of Christ had enabled its adherents to meet danger and endure suffering, undismayed by cold, hunger, toil, and poverty, to uphold the banner of truth in face of the rack, the dungeon, and the stake. To combat these forces, Jesuitism inspired its followers with a fanaticism that enabled them to endure like dangers, and to oppose to the power of truth all the weapons of deception. There was no crime too great for them to commit, no deception too base for them to practice, no disguise too difficult for them to assume. Vowed to perpetual poverty and humility, it was their studied aim to secure wealth and power, to be devoted to the overthrow of Protestantism, and the re-establishment of the papal supremacy." - The Great Controversy; by E.G. White, Page 234

"When appearing as members of their order, they wore a garb of sanctity, visiting prisons and hospitals, ministering to the sick and the poor, professing to have renounced the world, and bearing the sacred name of Jesus, who went about doing good. But under this blameless exterior the most criminal and deadly purposes were often concealed. It was a fundamental principle of the order that the end justifies the means. By this code, lying, theft, perjury, assassination, were not only pardonable but commendable, when they served the interests of the church. Under various disguises the Jesuits worked their way into offices of state, climbing up to be the counselors of kings, and shaping the policy of nations. They became servants to act as spies upon their masters. They established colleges for the sons of princes and nobles, and schools for the common people; and the children of Protestant parents were drawn into an observance of popish rites. All the outward pomp and display of the Romish worship was brought to bear to confuse the mind and dazzle and captivate the imagination, and thus the liberty for which the fathers had toiled and bled was betrayed by the sons. The Jesuits rapidly spread themselves over Europe, and wherever they went, there followed a revival of popery." - The Great Controversy; by E.G. White, Page 235

Francis I is a Jesuit. Even named after two of his great heroes, Francis Xavier [co-founder of Jesuit order] and Francis of Assisi [a person tied to mysticism, and pantheism [&panentheism]]

Francis I Visiting Prisons:

THE LATEST NEWS : Pope Francis visits a youth prison watch - YouTube

Francis I Visiting Hospitals:

Pope Francis visits Rome children's hospital

Francis I on "Redistribution" of wealth... etc:

United Nations News Centre - UN counts on Catholic Church to help promote dignity for all, Ban tells Pope Francis

Look into the ties this person had in Argentina.
​

 

[Rhamiel]

I think it is kind of odd to assume that Roman Catholics would bring back executing heretics if they had the ability

for the record, the Vatican has been against the death penalty in affluent nations for years
like I do not mean the execution of heretics, I mean all forms of the death penalty, for any crime at all

but back to the main idea, that Catholics would bring back totalitarian systems of religious persecution if they could....

I do not see this, for example, people are socialized by their religious beliefs, but it is not JUST their religious beliefs that set up a persons feelings and values

family life, schools, peer groups, the media
all of these play a factor
So I do not see any Western Christians wanting to bring back burning at the stake.

maybe the members of the SDA bring up the darker moments of Catholic history out of jealousy?
it was created in 1863 and has always been a minority church in every place it has existed, for example, there are twice as many Catholics in the USA then there are SDA in the entire world.

I think the SDA just wishes it was around in pre-modern times and had the numbers to really make a difference

 

[Rhamiel]

two points, in post number 5 you refer to the Knights of Columbus as a military order

that is wrong, they were never a military order, their ministry is social, not militaristic

and St. Francis of Assisi was not tied to Pantheism

 

[yogosans14]

I think it is kind of odd to assume that Roman Catholics would bring back executing heretics if they had the ability

for the record, the Vatican has been against the death penalty in affluent nations for years
like I do not mean the execution of heretics, I mean all forms of the death penalty, for any crime at all

but back to the main idea, that Catholics would bring back totalitarian systems of religious persecution if they could....

I do not see this, for example, people are socialized by their religious beliefs, but it is not JUST their religious beliefs that set up a persons feelings and values

family life, schools, peer groups, the media
all of these play a factor
So I do not see any Western Christians wanting to bring back burning at the stake.

maybe the members of the SDA bring up the darker moments of Catholic history out of jealousy?
it was created in 1863 and has always been a minority church in every place it has existed, for example, there are twice as many Catholics in the USA then there are SDA in the entire world.

I think the SDA just wishes it was around in pre-modern times and had the numbers to really make a difference

The SDA is a pseudo non Christian cult group like the JWs. In fact the founder of the Jehovahs Witnesses was a SDA himself. My grandmother recently gave me a watchtower article and it had anti catholic and anti Trinitarian dogma all in it claiming the Trinity is a "catholic satanic lie".

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The SDA is a pseudo non Christian cult group like the JWs. In fact the founder of the Jehovahs Witnesses was a SDA himself. My grandmother recently gave me a watchtower article and it had anti catholic and anti Trinitarian dogma all in it claiming the Trinity is a "catholic satanic lie".

I'm not SDA but I don't think you checked your facts before posting. I found this on their main site

Trinity: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

There is one God—Father, Son and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration and service by all of creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

I'm not SDA but I don't think you checked your facts before posting. I found this on their main site

Also to mention that Charles Taze Russel [leader of the 'Bible Students', aka 'Jehovah' Witnesses'] was never Seventh-day Adventist, though he came out of the Advent movement of 1800's.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Also to mention that Charles Taze Russel [leader of the 'Bible Students', aka 'Jehovah' Witnesses'] was never Seventh-day Adventist, though he came out of the Advent movement of 1800's.

Is the Advent movement and seventh day adventist two different things?

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

two points, in post number 5 you refer to the Knights of Columbus as a military order

that is wrong, they were never a military order, their ministry is social, not militaristic

and St. Francis of Assisi was not tied to Pantheism

You should look more closely.

Francis of Assissi [wiki]:

"He believed that nature itself was the mirror of God. He called all creatures his “brothers” and “sisters,” and even preached to the birds[36][37] and supposedly persuaded a wolf to stop attacking some locals if they agreed to feed the wolf. In his “Canticle of the Creatures” (“Praises of Creatures” or “Canticle of the Sun&#8221, he mentioned the “Brother Sun” and “Sister Moon,” the wind and water, and “Sister Death.” He referred to his chronic illnesses as his “sisters."", see the ""Canticle of the Sun"".

Further:

"Francis's love of nature also stands out in bold relief in the world he moved in. He delighted to commune with the wild flowers, the crystal spring, and the friendly fire, and to greet the sun as it rose upon the fair Umbrian vale. In this respect, indeed, St. Francis's "gift of sympathy" seems to have been wider even than St. Paul's, for we find no evidence in the great Apostle of a love for nature or for animals. " - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: St. Francis of Assisi
​

They even found a way to belittle Paul! Assissi also had ties with the Sultan/Muslims, and visions in his mystisicm, even aquiring the stigmata, a curse and mockery of Christ from satan. As if any man, who is not Jesus Christ [which bore the sin of the whole world], could bear such wounds and live.

Also consider the coat of "Arms" for the "Order" itself, with a Fasces [represents rule by Fascism], all power in one man. They also carry the "sword" even amidst its pageantry and "coat of Arms", along with "shield" and "helmet". A "Knight" is a military order, which works for a King/Emperor/Caesar, and the "order" itself has ranks and is named after Columbus, himself a Knight.

"... Central to our mission is the defense of the Catholic Church and its Priests. The Order of the Knights of Columbus is consecrated to the Blessed Virgin Mary. We are unequivocal in our loyalty to the Pope..." - Council #4215 Mission

Also they claim they are "...committed to the protection of all human life...", yet we know Rome does not deem "pertinacious" herertics as human, but rather as "rabid beast" to be destroyed, not having the "right to life".
​

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

Is the Advent movement and seventh day adventist two different things?

See the following for a brief synopsis:

History of the Seventh-day Adventist Church - YouTube

For more history, see "Keepers of the Flame", etc [its a bit older though]:

History of the Church Link

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

...

Rhamiel. Study with me. If not with me, then upon your own. Put away what you think you know, grew up with or what you were told. Put away councils and declarations. Do what Jesus commanded.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Matthew 24:15
​

Open the books of Daniel and Revelation, for they go together. See that there is a power on earth that seeks to take the place of Christ on Earth, his worship is on earth, its system of religion is earthly and focused on earth and has changed times and laws, not only of God's Law, but of times and prophecies dealing with time, has persecuted, has ruled for over a thousand years, etc.

We have spoken before, and what I told you was truth. Rome will gain ascendency again, and will overwhelm secularism/atheism. Miracles that men have not yet seen will take place upon her behalf... and things most are not prepared for.

Events are coming into place. Even in Rome, as it was in the days of Jesus, there is a Highpriest, and Highpriest Emeritus. There is a Nation bearing the Eagle, formulated after Roman ways [Senate, etc], and they work together to crucify again the "body" of Christ on earth.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"The mental structure of fundamentalists is violence in the name of God." - Francis I

A 7th day Adventist making a thread about Catholics??? Shocker.

SGS - Isn't there enough of this going on lately? If you would like to reconsider this thread I'm sure a lot of people would be very happy.

The SDA is a pseudo non Christian cult group like the JWs. In fact the founder of the Jehovahs Witnesses was a SDA himself. My grandmother recently gave me a watchtower article and it had anti catholic and anti Trinitarian dogma all in it claiming the Trinity is a "catholic satanic lie".

I can see that Shiny Gospel Shoes has opened a real can of worms here. Hope he is happy with his meal

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

... My grandmother recently gave me a watchtower article and it had anti catholic and anti Trinitarian dogma all in it claiming the Trinity is a "catholic satanic lie".

There is a world of difference between the Biblical 3 Persons - Father, Son & Holy Spirit in their unity of purpose, mind, character, yet not in Person of the Scriptural account, and the perfectly one suprabound principle in essence/substance [singularity] of the Roman Faith.

Here is what Rome officially teaches [yet not what Scripture teaches], notice that Jesus's Life is not of Himself [yet is "principle from a principle"], neither the Holy Spirit:

"We believe then in the Father who eternally begets the Son, in the Son, the Word of God, who is eternally begotten; in the Holy Spirit, the uncreated Person who proceeds from the Father and the Son as their eternal love. Thus in the Three Divine Persons, coaeternae sibi et coaequales,[8] the life and beatitude of God perfectly one superabound and are consummated in the supreme excellence and glory proper to uncreated being, and always "there should be venerated unity in the Trinity and Trinity in the unity."[9]" [Online Roman Catholic Library; Credo of the People of God; Promulgated by Pope Paul VI on June 30, 1968]- http://www.newadvent...docs_pa06cr.htm

"...that the Paraclete "is not to be considered as unconnected with the Father and the Son, for He is with Them one in substance and divinity"...

... Proceeding both from the Father and the Son, the Holy Ghost, nevertheless, proceeds from Them as from a single principle.... Hence it follows, indeed, that the Holy Ghost proceeds fromthe two other Persons, not in so far as They are distinct, but inasmuch as Their Divine perfection is numerically one. Besides, such is the explicit teaching of ecclesiastical tradition, which is concisely put by St. Augustine (On the Holy Trinity V.14): "As the Father and the Son are only one God and, relatively to the creature, only one Creator and one Lord, so, relatively to the Holy Ghost, They are only one principle." This doctrine was definded in the following words by the Second Ecumenical Council of Lyons [Denzinger, "Enchiridion" (1908), n. 460]: "We confess that the Holy Ghost proceeds eternallyfromthe Father and the Son, not as from two principles, but as from one principle,not by two spirations, but by one single spiration." The teaching was again laid down by the Council of Florence (ibid., n. 691), and by Eugene IV in his Bull "Cantate Domino" (ibid., n. 703 sq.). ...

..."the Holy Ghost comes from the Father and from the Son not made, not created, not generated, but proceeding" ... " [Online Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, Holy Spirit; sections throughout] - http://www.newadvent...then/07409a.htm

"The sacrosanct Roman Church, founded by the voice of our Lord and Savior, firmly believes, professes, and preaches one true God omnipotent, unchangeable, and eternal, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; one in essence, three in persons; Father unborn, Son born of the Father, Holy Spirit proceeding from Father and Son; that the Father is not Son or Holy Spirit, that Son is not Father or Holy Spirit; that Holy Spirit is not Father or Son; but Father alone is Father, Son alone is Son, Holy Spirit alone is Holy Spirit. The Father alone begot the Son of His own substance; the Son alone was begotten of the Father alone; the Holy Spirit alone proceeds at the same time from the Father and Son.

These three persons are one God, and not three gods, because the three have one substance, one essence, one nature, one divinity, one immensity, one eternity, where no opposition of relationship interferes.

“Because of this unity the Father is entire in the Son, entire in the Holy Spirit; the Son is entire in the Father, entire in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is entire in the Father, entire in the Son. No one either excels another in eternity, or exceeds in magnitude, or is superior in power. For the fact that the Son is of the Father is eternal and without beginning; and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son is eternal and without beginning.” Whatever the Father is or has, He does not have from another, but from Himself; and He is the principle without principle. Whatever the Son is or has, He has from the Father, and is the principle from a principle. Whatever the Holy Spirit is or has, He has simultaneously from the Father and the Son. But the Father and the Son are not two principles of the Holy Spirit, but one principle, just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of the creature, but one principle. ..." The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV by Pope Eugene IV - http://catholicism.o...ate-domino.html
​

If only the majority actually understood who that particular "one principle" in that teaching really is.

We can look at the Scriptures to see what it actually teaches.

 

[Albion]

I guess I'm one who feels that to claim everything believed in by 90% of the thousands of extant Christian denominations is "Roman" is simply ludicrous. And besides that, there wasn't yet a Roman Catholic Church at the time that the Council of Nicaea met.

 

[PaladinValer]

19th century pseudoknowledge is all bunk.

I'll stick with real historic, orthodox, classical Christianity, to which Vatican Catholicism is an especially visible tradition therein.