The mechanics of prayer.

TheStraightener · Sep 21, 2014

I've seen a lot of people (not on here) who prayed for and thanked God for something that happened in their lives.

I saw someone on Facebook the other day thanking God because they got a job they applied for.

So lets look at that example... How did god make it happen?

Did God give the person the ability to give a good interview? Did God give the person new abilities to do the job that they didn't have before? Did God change the application form? Did God control the mind of the employer to give them the job? Did he sabotage the other applicants?

One of those things or similar must have happened if God was responsible for that person getting the job.

When people thank God for things like this, what do they think he actually did?

juvenissun · Sep 21, 2014

TheStraightener said:
I've seen a lot of people (not on here) who prayed for and thanked God for something that happened in their lives.

I saw someone on Facebook the other day thanking God because they got a job they applied for.

So lets look at that example... How did god make it happen?

Did God give the person the ability to give a good interview? Did God give the person new abilities to do the job that they didn't have before? Did God change the application form? Did God control the mind of the employer to give them the job? Did he sabotage the other applicants?

One of those things or similar must have happened if God was responsible for that person getting the job.

When people thank God for things like this, what do they think he actually did?

Do you understand how many parameters are playing all together for an occasion such as one gets an offer of a job, or one is recovered from a sickness? It is much much more than just your qualification or doctor's treatment.

Do you know how many parameters are playing for you to have a nearly-missed car accident? It is much much more than just your emergent maneuvering of the car. Every incidence of airplane mid-air collision is thoroughly analyzed. Just read any one of them to appreciate the multi-level of coincidence involved in the "misfortune" "accident". The span of the whole story certainly does not sound like an accident at all.

Give thanks to everything that happened to you. Anything happened is much much more complicated than what you know about it.

CabVet · Sep 21, 2014

juvenissun said:
Do you understand how many parameters are playing all together for an occasion such as one gets an offer of a job, or one is recovered from a sickness? It is much much more than just your qualification or doctor's treatment.

Do you know how many parameters are playing for you to have a nearly-missed car accident? It is much much more than just your emergent maneuvering of the car. Every incidence of airplane mid-air collision is thoroughly analyzed. Just read any one of them to appreciate the multi-level of coincidence involved in the "misfortune" "accident". The span of the whole story certainly does not sound like an accident at all.

Give thanks to everything that happened to you. Anything happened is much much more complicated than what you know about it.

Do you understand that there are just as many unemployed Christians as there are unemployed Muslims? Or atheists? I don't know what that tells you, but what it tells me is that if you are competent, you will get a job, and if you aren't, you won't, regardless of prayer.

Heissonear · Sep 21, 2014

TheStraightener said:
I've seen a lot of people (not on here) who prayed for and thanked God for something that happened in their lives.

I saw someone on Facebook the other day thanking God because they got a job they applied for.

So lets look at that example... How did god make it happen?

Did God give the person the ability to give a good interview? Did God give the person new abilities to do the job that they didn't have before? Did God change the application form? Did God control the mind of the employer to give them the job? Did he sabotage the other applicants?

One of those things or similar must have happened if God was responsible for that person getting the job.

When people thank God for things like this, what do they think he actually did?

.

You are showing ignorance and immaturity.

Who in the Bible did not pray?

Christianity is a relationship with God, not a march in doctrines.

God hears everything we say.

And you think prayer is acoustic waves?

Mr Strawberry · Sep 21, 2014

Heissonear said:
.

You are such a tiny man about the Spiritual realm.

It's mysterious how God brings things about from requests? To you.

A peak behind the scenes and the Spiritual Dynamics are prolific. What you do not see you mock in unbelief as presto!

When will you be recovered from the unbelief that yanks you away from knowing Him and His Kingdom?

As you've personally been given a behind the scenes tour of the "spiritual dynamic", whatever that is, you will be able to tell us exactly how it works. Won't you?

Oh, and we'd like specifics; no bluster please.

juvenissun · Sep 21, 2014

TheStraightener said:
Any chance of you actually answering the question?

Yes. The answer is that it works, but we do not know, and can not know how.

juvenissun · Sep 21, 2014

CabVet said:
Do you understand that there are just as many unemployed Christians as there are unemployed Muslims? Or atheists? I don't know what that tells you, but what it tells me is that if you are competent, you will get a job, and if you aren't, you won't, regardless of prayer.

That is a disguise under statistics. The effect of praying is only on the person who made the prayer. It is a 100% personal thing.

Besides, find no job does not mean the person is not capable. And if the person has faith, it is an answer to the prayer.

juvenissun · Sep 21, 2014

TheStraightener said:
I've seen a lot of people (not on here) who prayed for and thanked God for something that happened in their lives.

I saw someone on Facebook the other day thanking God because they got a job they applied for.

So lets look at that example... How did god make it happen?

Did God give the person the ability to give a good interview? Did God give the person new abilities to do the job that they didn't have before? Did God change the application form? Did God control the mind of the employer to give them the job? Did he sabotage the other applicants?

One of those things or similar must have happened if God was responsible for that person getting the job.

When people thank God for things like this, what do they think he actually did?

I guess that is your question. Fine. (I guess you just can not take a better answer than a straight forward one)

The person thinks that God answered his prayer.

TheStraightener · Sep 21, 2014

juvenissun said:
I guess that is your question. Fine. (I guess you just can not take a better answer than a straight forward one)

The person thinks that God answered his prayer.

Yeah but how

Because if they don't know what he did then how can they be sure he answered them

Lost Angel · Sep 21, 2014

Praying can help ones focusing of thoughts and mood.

If the gods know all, from beginning to end, in a sense, it would be predetermined.

With faith, comes the beliefs and observations of divine intervention. Usually it is rather vague as to when and if a miracle.

If the gods have minute plans for everything, it is confusing as to what praying does for events an non self.

If nothing else, prayer is usually a form of thanking and honoring the gods for everything.

Strathos · Sep 22, 2014

TheStraightener said:
Yeah but how

Because if they don't know what he did then how can they be sure he answered them

You can't be sure. You have to have faith.

DogmaHunter · Sep 22, 2014

juvenissun said:
Yes. The answer is that it works, but we do not know, and can not know how.

How can you assert that it works when in the same breath you state that it's impossible to know that it works?

DogmaHunter · Sep 22, 2014

juvenissun said:
That is a disguise under statistics. The effect of praying is only on the person who made the prayer. It is a 100% personal thing.

Besides, find no job does not mean the person is not capable. And if the person has faith, it is an answer to the prayer.

So.... you have no way of differentiating an actual answered prayer on the one hand and just self-deceiving superstition on the other hand?

For example, if you pray for rain and, lo and behold it starts to rain, how would you go about finding out if the rain was actually the result of the prayer or simply coincidental?

ChetSinger · Sep 22, 2014

Interesting. But wrong forum, I think.

Heissonear · Sep 22, 2014

Mr Strawberry said:
As you've personally been given a behind the scenes tour of the "spiritual dynamic", whatever that is, you will be able to tell us exactly how it works. Won't you?

Oh, and we'd like specifics; no bluster please.

.

I did not make the Spiritual realm. I just get in on it.

It's Power is far above the natural. Got that?

Those within have life that does not end; it is glaringly obvious. Got that?

What you say does not exist has always been. Got that?

Now, do you want words or the experience of the it?

Or is unbelief going to continue to yank you back to your "the natural is all there seems to be?"

.

TheStraightener · Sep 22, 2014

One thing would make me change my mind...

Evidence.

Got that?

Heissonear · Sep 22, 2014

TheStraightener said:
One thing would make me change my mind...

Evidence.

Got that?

.

We are not just a natural creature with a fleshly body. Here is where you error for "evidence". You want to stay in the flesh, body realm to call the shots of what is and is not, even about the Spiritual Realm.

For we are body, soul, and spirit. I Thessalonians 5:23

Those who allow there soul to mind the body are only familiar with the natural world, the physical.

Those who's soul minds their spirit, even as the Holy Spirit works within their spirit, learn about the Spiritual, through minding the Spirit at work in their spirit.

So you say "evidence is what I follow" relates to looking for natural, earthly evidence.

Many are unconscious of their spirit and the Holy Spirit. They need to be awaken to the Spiritual. It is their soul over minding the natural that has caused the evidence problem.

So do you really want the evidence that their is a Spiritual realm? Even to meet and learn of the Holy Spirit? It will not happen from you continuing to mind the natural. You need to change.

.

Heissonear · Sep 22, 2014

.

When a person is awaken to the Spiritual Realm, even the Holy Spirit, by their soul finally minding their spirit through the Holy Spirit working in their spirit, prayer is from the soul into the Spiritual, even to the Holy Spirit they have met and are building a relationship with, even the Kingdom of God realm.

Prayer is not just a person who minds their natural body then pray audio, acoustic waves into the physical. But for those who do not know the Spiritual Realm they think prayer is mechanical, fleshly only acts with not conceived impact or reality to it.

Prayer is foremost Spiritual - not physical. It is time to allow your spirit to be awaken. It is time to learn of the Realm above the Natural. And to pray to Him!

.

JustMeSee · Sep 22, 2014

Souls and spirits are things that are intangible and are of faith.
Claiming some inside track to what constitutes miracles resulting from prayer, rather than the complex web of the natural world, would require some sort of evidence to be convincing.

Every impossible event resulting from prayer would be excellent grounds to be convincing. We don't hear much of the impossible occurring.

Perhaps, miracles are the result of a chains of events.

TheStraightener · Sep 22, 2014

Heissonear said:
.

We are not just a natural creature with a fleshly body. Here is where you error for "evidence". You want to stay in the flesh, body realm to call the shots of what is and is not, even about the Spiritual Realm.

For we are body, soul, and spirit. I Thessalonians 5:23

Those who allow there soul to mind the body are only familiar with the natural world, the physical.

Those who's soul minds their spirit, even as the Holy Spirit works within their spirit, learn about the Spiritual, through minding the Spirit at work in their spirit.

So you say "evidence is what I follow" relates to looking for natural, earthly evidence.

Many are unconscious of their spirit and the Holy Spirit. They need to be awaken to the Spiritual. It is their soul over minding the natural that has caused the evidence problem.

So do you really want the evidence that their is a Spiritual realm? Even to meet and learn of the Holy Spirit? It will not happen from you continuing to mind the natural. You need to change.

.

Probably the most long winded and drawn out "No" I think I've ever read.

If your going to make outrageous claims then your gonna need to back it up... Got that?

The mechanics of prayer.

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