The Masonic Concept of God

[agua]

I believe there are Buddhist masons, however. I'm not sure how it works out, given that Buddhists don't think Buddha is God, on the whole. Incidentally, there are also Buddhist Boy Scouts (even in the US, Buddhist Churches of America regularly host troops), I've wondered about that too, since Boy Scouts in the US require belief in God (at least that is what I recollect).

I don't think masonry is any more religious or incompatible with Christianity than Boy Scouts, in fact. Both are similar organizations devoted to altruism and self-improvement.

Can I ask if you're a Mason FireDragon and if so you're Degree and degrees you hold ?

 

[Skip Sampson]

I don't think masonry is any more religious or incompatible with Christianity than Boy Scouts, in fact. Both are similar organizations devoted to altruism and self-improvement.

Anyone who would make such a claim doesn't know much about Freemasonry, which openly claims that it is a deeply religious. The other differences are many and quite significant.

That's a reasonable comparison IMO.

That's an unreasonable, and silly, statement, as you surely know. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

My lodge, a regular lodge under the Grand Lodge of California, has Buddhist members. A fair few Jewish members, I knew a few members to be deists and I knew of one pagan member.

All of whom met the Masonic requirement for 'belief in a supreme being.' Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

A friend's pastor, who is Pentacostal, said that in order to join his church, he had to say a prayer renouncing any ties that relatives, living or deceased, had to any Masonic lodges. I was shocked.

Did you ask for his reasons for doing so? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Aureus]

Got a nice email today about an event in Los Angeles and while I don't know how many people who read this thread would be near enough to attend it they'll be doing a webcast of it and it seems like it'd make good fodder for anyone interested in this topic. In late March the Institute for Masonic Studies and the UCLA History Department will be doing a set of lectures all about the conspiracy theories involved, their histories etc... Open to the public of course. Fourth International Conference at UCLA

 

[Skip Sampson]

Thought it might be useful to see how the Scottish Rite/Southern Jurisdiction (SR/SJ) addressed the concept of God. The following quotes are from two books published by The Supreme Council, which is the controlling body for the SR/SJ:
A Bridge to Light, Rex R. Hutchens, 2010 (4th edition) (ABTL)
Scottish Rite Ritual Monitor and Guide, Arturo de Hoyos, 2010 (3rd edition) (M&G)
These explain the Pike rituals used in the SR/SJ and are authoritative. Emphasis has been added where appropriate.

It should be understood that the SR/SJ takes these comments, and themselves, very seriously, as this quote from C. Fred Kleinknecht, the Sovereign Grand Commander at the time, indicates:

We have sought, not to teach men the truth, but rather a way to the truth. Each must find it for himself. We seek only to be the guide – teaching the common ground of various philosophical and religious approaches to belief in order that men might be more united in their standards of right and wrong and their understanding of the reality of God. (ABTL, 1st edition, 1988, pg. vii)

One might also consider the implications of this quote:

The apron, an emblem of Masonry and Truth, is of white lambskin, lined and bordered with black. The candle, surrounded by darkness, represents the feeble light of ignorance, error, and intoleration, with which the world is shrouded, and through which Masonry moves like a star, dispensing light and knowledge and toleration, symbolized by the star on the flap. (pg. 55)

No doubt, these guys are serious about what they believe, and intolerant of those who challenge their beliefs. BTW, before reading the following material, I'd suggest re-reading the first post in this thread, as much in here confirms my comments therein.

Who God is:

Freemasonry does not encroach upon the just privileges of religion. The Fraternity does not claim to provide salvation of the soul or entrance into Heaven. It affirms that God exists, that there is benefit in prayer, and that man owes it to himself to return to that Sanctuary which best increases his faith in our Creator--that Omnipotent Being in whom you professed belief prior to joining a Masonic Lodge. There, in the fold of your own religion, you will pray, study the Book of Sacred Law, and turn from your errors… (pg. 197)

While Masonry doesn't care if a Mormon, for instance, returns to his stakehouse to learn from the Book of Mormon, I certainly do. Interesting that they identify 'that Omnipotent Being' as the one every Mason professed in the EA degree. Since there were undoubtedly men holding to different religious beliefs, now they know that they were all professing faith in the same 'Omnipotent Being,' which is the Masonic GAOTU, discussed in the first post. Jew, Christian, Hindu, Mormon, Muslim; all worship the same 'Omnipotent Being,' which comment is in full agreement with Pike and Newton.

God is above all, and the Father of all. In the presence of his Infinity, human distinctions are infinitely insignificant. He permits all to call him Father, and disinherits none of his children. (pg. 340)

Biblical Christianity is clear that only those saved by faith in Jesus can call God 'Father.' Jesus himself informed some of the Jews that their father was Satan. As to disinherit, does that mean no one goes to condemnation? Certainly seems to be the Masonic view.

God is the great Creator of man and the world. He created man's nature. If everything that a man does is done rightfully and faithfully, he will be a good man and will naturally help to work out his own salvation. Should a man fail to act religiously in his life, the great law of retribution will act to answer for his future.
This lecture also teaches the progressive nature of man's awareness of God and His attributes. Originally feared, now He is to be seen as a God of love. Originally seen as a physical entity, now He is transcendent. (pg. 87)

We now focus on three important philosophical issues. First, there is one true God Who is pure absolute intellect and existence and Who is the soul and spirit of the universe which He created with a thought. Everything to Him is here and now; He is unchangeable, immutable, just, wise and powerful. His punishments are but the inevitable results of the laws of cause and effect. Second, the soul is immortal and is part of the universal soul and, if God pleases, will be absorbed again into Himself. Third, the struggle in every man's nature between the divine will implanted in every man by God and the natural will caused by the frailty of the flesh is constant and one with all the universe. This struggle is the law of harmony in action, he (sic) reconciling and bringing into accord of the spiritual and material nature of man. (pg. 198)

Salvation by works, anyone? And "if God pleases..."? Sounds pretty arbitrary. I'll take the Biblical promises on that regard over the SR/SJ, thank you.

Despite messages from God, human reason is utterly powerless to form any conception of what He is. So God is personified by words normally used to described (sic) the attributes of men; wisdom, will, sovereignty. No qualities should be ascribed to God. His power is revealed to us in nature but we hardly understand nature better than we understand God. The forces of nature should be understood as His varied actions, but nature is not God. In writing, the candidate must affirm his belief in one supreme Intelligence: a Creator of the universe who reveals Himself therein like the soul reveals itself in thoughts, words and works. (pg. 209)

What God does:

This degree continues the lessons of the fifteenth degree with a particular emphasis on the belief that God aids those who pursue a good work, are faithful, and can practice the virtue of wisdom. (pg. 411)

How about those that don't? Is there no help for the widow's son if he doesn't practice all of that?

The Lord's will was made manifest to the physical eyes of man. Today, we, as Scottish Rite Freemasons, need only recall this great Temple of Solomon to realize that the Almighty will never forsake men of good will and that we, too, can build mighty temples of spirit and stone to the Lord. (pg. 382)

Men of good will? Who are they? Will God not forsake the atheist as long as he's a man of good will? The earlier quotes stating that Masonry was not concerned with matters of salvation are somewhat disputed by these other comments. It would seem that they are very much concerned over it and are convinced that good deeds and good will are all you need for salvation.

A monk then disturbs the solemn watch, praising Constans' ability to withstand the temptations of worldly love and earthly possessions. He declares Constans worthy to become a monk and thereby assure his soul's salvation, for to live in the desert far from the deceptions of the world, devoted to penance and mortification of the flesh, is the surest way to salvation. Constans refuses the monk's arguments, trusting in a God of love who will recognize his honor and service to others as a noble path to salvation. (pg. 263)

Again, is that path open to those that reject Jesus? Help me here, pastor.

Our captivity by sin and sorrow are the means from God to purify the heart and ennoble the soul. The Great God made all and loves all. The true God is kind, indulgent, loving, forgiving, a benefactor, a friend and a father. (pg. 156)

Aren't these qualities, which should not be ascribed to God? Further, am I the only one who finds it interesting that the SR/SJ believes that God inflicts sin and sorrow on us so we can be purified and ennobled? Somehow, I don't believe that is a doctrine found in Biblical Christianity.

Some thoughts on Jesus Christ:

Christ, preaching the equality of men before God, and making of those who followed him into a Brotherhood, denouncing oppressors and hypocrites, scourging the money-changers out of the Temple, selecting his disciples among the poor of the Earth, became the type, in Free Masonry, of the Man of the People, endeavoring to enfranchise them and elevate them. (pg. 354)

Jesus as a Man of the People? I always thought he was God incarnate who came to save the world. I guess that's an extremist view, some of the intolerance that Masonry seeks to war against. Most of the comments above are quite incorrect, and show that they interpret the Bible through their Masonic worldview. But what the heck: it's only another book, like the Koran, Book of Mormon, The Feminine Mystique.

This degree sets forth the coming of the New Law, the Law of Love, proclaimed in unmistakable terms by Jesus of Nazareth after centuries of spiritual and intellectual darkness in the world when the Sacred Word was again lost. The supreme message brought to the world at that time was the proclamation of the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man. (pg. 135)

Again, I thought his message was something else.

Advice:

Lessons: Build Temples of the Living God in our Hearts by following Masonic truth - justice, equity, morality, wisdom, labor, fidelity, brotherhood - to achieve immortality. (pg. 120)

So, following Masonic truth guarantees us Heaven?

The religious lessons of the Ineffable Degrees culminate in the realization of the ineffable name of Deity as a symbol of the ineffable, or indescribable, nature of God. These degrees provide many opportunities to reflect on the nature of God and the innate limitations of the language of man to express the inexpressible. The virtues of man are the qualities of God imperfectly demonstrated. Our reason is not His reason, but merely a mirror on the illimitable mind that creates, preserves, and changes the universe. We travel on the path to perfection with humility because He has seen fit to show us that path and guide us by the surest route, manifested in the lives and teachings of the great philosophers, teachers and prophets of the world.
Each culture has formed its conception of God into a particular myth and practice best suited to the experiences of the people and the limits of their conceptions. Masonry seeks to teach no doctrine of faith except that universal doctrine of the brotherhood of man and the oneness of God. Therefore, even though it is not a religion, it is a worship. (pg. 11)

The SR/SJ elsewhere kindly points out that Masonry has taken the bits of truth from all those different religions and philosophies and holds it safe from corruption. No shrinking violets, they. Nice to know that they view Masonry as a worship, though.

Couched within a catechism are what Pike called the "nine Great truths of Masonry." As the 26th degree closes the series of degrees that illustrate the Mysteries, these Truths appropriately summarize the teachings of the 23rd through the 26th Degrees.
1) No man has seen God at any time; that is, God is only spiritual.
3) The Moral Sense of man derives from God and therefore has a divine source and is a divine imperative.
4) Moral truths are as real as physical truths. They are not created by God but are a part of His nature; therefore morality is not an arbitrary law of God but a part of that goodness which constitutes His essence.
7) The immutable law of God requires, that besides respecting he (sic) absolute rights of others, and being just, we should do good, be charitable, and obey the dictates of the generous and noble sentiments of the soul. We are but the almoners of God's riches and thus charity can know neither rule nor limit. It is the most sacred of all Masonic obligations.
8)The laws which control and regulate the universe are those of motion and harmony. Evil is merely apparent, and all is in reality good and perfect. The existence of misfortune and adversity provides the opportunity for the expression of those virtues which ennoble the soul and elevate the spirit of man; thus is the evil of this world but part of the great plan of God for the betterment of man. (pg. 226)

Evil is only apparent? God's plan includes unleashing evil upon us? Does that mean Hitler was part of God's plan and helped out the Jews more than they knew? I dunno; can't recall where being evil ever helped me out, and I can't recall of anyone noting that he was made a better man by evil. Are Masons made better by evil? They claim that they are being made into 'better men' so maybe the SR/SJ doctrine has that as its goal. Ya never know with these guys.

Lessons:
Man is composed of the flesh, the soul and the intellect.
Man is a reflection of the Divine. Do not weary God with petitions. (pg. 206)

Well, I'm sorry if I've done that. I didn't think He was keeping count, or that would count against me. As my Father, I thought I could talk to Him at any time. But, of course, I'm not a Mason, so maybe my lack of enlightenment is working against me.

From the quotes above I conclude that any Christian should find that material highly offensive, and in many cases, directly contradictory to his faith. ABTL contains much more that denigrates Christianity and seeks to place it on par with all other religions, and it seems to delight in describing a god that loves men just like themselves, Masons, men of good works and good will and certain that God loves them regardless of their religious beliefs. That's a universalist belief, and it lies at the core of Masonic doctrine. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

Got a nice email today about an event in Los Angeles and while I don't know how many people who read this thread would be near enough to attend it they'll be doing a webcast of it and it seems like it'd make good fodder for anyone interested in this topic. In late March the Institute for Masonic Studies and the UCLA History Department will be doing a set of lectures all about the conspiracy theories involved, their histories etc... Open to the public of course. Fourth International Conference at UCLA

I can't be there, but it looks like a conference that's worth attending. Imagine--a program led by actual scholars and researchers!

 

[Ellwood3]

In Post #206 I was quoted by circuitrider.

I had said [to Albion] “I didn’t say groups related to freemasonry are freemason. I distinguished between them. I encourage you to go back and read my response to your question.

Circuitrider, responded saying it was doublespeak.”

Here is my original post. Bold-faced emphasis is mine:

Blue is Blue

Ellwood3 said (post #143):
[FONT='Georgia','serif']
The groups that have taken elements from Masonry are related in the same way borrowing (or stealing) blue paint and using it still makes the thing painted blue, even though the theft wasn't authorized.
[/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']
Albion responded (post #150)

In other words, they're not related at all.

There's a thread running right now on the Lutheran forum that questions the use of a triangle and an eye in Lutheran and Catholic churches because some other groups that are not Lutheran or Catholic also use these symbols to represent something or other. Masonry also does. Are the Lutheran churches and Freemasonry therefore "related" organizations? Or is it more correct to say that two unrelated organizations use the same symbols and may not even assign the same meaning to them?[/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']
Ellwood3 (me) answered:

"The issue here is about whether groups that have found something in common with the elements of Masonic symbols and/or practices can be said to be “related” to freemasonry. They take what they can[/FONT] use because a common element exists.

When wiccans and other neo-pagans use “SO MOTE IT BE” which they did get from freemasonry, it is because it fit them, like one might borrow a coat or pair of shoes that fits. The relationship between modern witchcraft and modern paganism has been recognized by the pagans and wiccans.

Can symbols have different meanings? Of course. Can different groups learn of something one has the other would like to have, and then use it in the same way?

Of course.

Like blue paint taken from one place put on another remains blue.”


Can symbols one group uses from another group have different meanings?

I said “Of course.”

Can symbols one group uses from another have the same meaning, or be used because there is a common thread, and same or similar meaning?

I said, “Of course.”

“Doubletalk” is defined as the use of evasive or ambiguous language. Can a triangle represent the Triune God? Yes. Can it represent something other than the Triune God? Yes. That is not doubletalk, and it is not evasive.

The true argument appears to be that adhering Masons think—regardless of what it is said—it isn’t credible if the speaker is not speaking in support of Masonry as an adhering Mason.

Masons are under oath not to tell their secrets. Who is better to respond, the person whose main interest is the Holy Spirit's concept about Masonry, who uses scriptures, and resources by those many men who have left freemasonry along with Masonic works, or the person currently involved with Masonry, who is still under oath about not telling secrets?

 

[Ellwood3]

A friend's pastor, who is Pentacostal, said that in order to join his church, he had to say a prayer renouncing any ties that relatives, living or deceased, had to any Masonic lodges. I was shocked.

A friend's pastor, who is Pentacostal, said that in order to join his church, he had to say a prayer renouncing any ties that relatives, living or deceased, had to any Masonic lodges. I was shocked.

I am not surprised at all. Demons are involved, is the Pentecostal belief. You can learn more about it in deliverance ministry books and books on prayer.

"I Give You Authority" is a good one. It's by Charles Kraft, who is in deliverance ministry and has many good materials. Another is "Rules of Engagement." It gives a better understanding of what has been learned by their deliverance ministries.

"I Give You Authority" focuses on praying with authority.

The men taking oaths are usually unaware, but they are binding their descendants.

What you describe is actually wise practice. It would be good if more churches were aware of the need for it.

 

[Albion]

Masons are under oath not to tell their secrets.

The "secrets" are nothing but passwords and handshakes. Anyone who would make this into a dark or questionable thing is, IMO, laboring overly hard to find fault where there is none.

Who is better to respond, the person whose main interest is the Holy Spirit's concept about Masonry, who uses scriptures, and resources by those many men who have left freemasonry along with Masonic works, or the person currently involved with Masonry, who is still under oath about not telling secrets? [/SIZE][/FONT]

The ones who know something about Masonry, of course. And they have the Holy Spirit, use Scripture, and adhere to the teachings of their Christian churches as much as you or anyone else does.

 

[Simpleman25]

Binding their descendants?

Prove it. Not opinion, but multiple sources to back up your claim.

 

[circuitrider]

The men taking oaths are usually unaware, but they are binding their descendants.

What you describe is actually wise practice. It would be good if more churches were aware of the need for it.

While some Pentecostals believe this, it isn't a mainstream Christian belief. Not even all Pentecostals believe such stuff. It is a very minority view.

What is a wise practice is not to get involved in Christian demonological obsessions. Thinking that there is a demon under every bush can lead to forms of paranoid behavior and hugely unbiblical practices.

I had a friend in one of these groups that was always claiming a demon made him do something rather than taking responsibility for his own actions.

 

[LilLamb219]

MOD HAT ON

This thread is closed for staff review.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[High Fidelity]

MOD HAT ON

The thread has been permanently closed.

There have been numerous Mod Hats for numerous reasons to try and keep the thread on track, so that coupled with the belief that it has run its course, it will remain closed.

MOD HAT OFF
​