The Man Who Killed Pluto

[Nabobalis]

Below is a rather short (and rather bad) Q&A With Mike Brown who has a book called, "How I Killed Pluto and Why It Had It Coming". Found on Wired. There are some pretty pictures also( I assume, as for some reason, they are all pixelated when I view them)

How many planets are there? Just eight.

Because you killed Pluto. Yes.

Why does Pluto not deserve to be a planet? Pluto as an individual is absolutely not as important as the other eight planets. If it were to disappear suddenly tomorrow, it would not change anything dramatic about the solar system. We wouldn’t even feel it. You can’t say that about the eight real planets.

Might there be another ninth planet out there? I predict eight will stay the number forever. Maybe there’s something larger than Mercury in the very distant part of the solar system that’s in a crazy elliptical orbit. But if we found something like that, we would have to rethink the definition of a planet all over again.

This all started when you found what you took to be a new planet. It was what I had been looking for the entire time—something bigger than Pluto! The 10th planet! But it never felt right. Finding Eris wasn’t like finding Neptune or Uranus, because those planets are thousands of times more massive. And they’re also thousands of times more massive than Pluto. So we had to give Eris the boot, and that meant Pluto had to go, too. I didn’t think anyone had the guts to do it, but it was the right decision scientifically.

Who is the most upset by the delisting of Pluto? Astronomers on the New Horizons team, who sent a spacecraft to Pluto in 2006, are very unhappy. The thing their craft is going to is no longer a planet. It’s sort of fun to tease them about that.

What does your 5-year-old daughter think of having a planet-killer for a father? She has learned from general discussions that I killed Pluto and that killing is bad. Therefore, I’ve done something bad, and so she’s kind of mad at me.

To me the most interesting part of the interivew was this statement:

Maybe there’s something larger than Mercury in the very distant part of the solar system that’s in a crazy elliptical orbit. But if we found something like that, we would have to rethink the definition of a planet all over again.

The idea of a planet larger than mercury but so far out of the normal planetary orbits is incredible (to me at least). Just imagine the crazy situation that had to of happened to move a plant really far out. God must of been playing marbles when he was bored . Hopefully some astronomers get busy and find a planet like that.

Also a reminder of how time does fly, Pluto was demoted in 2006! 2006! I feel really old now.

 

[Targ]

Heh, I was in Taiwan in 2006. I visited their Planetarium and they had a sign up taped to the end of their Solar System model (written in very bad Engrish) about how Pluto is no longer a planet - sowwy! That seems like a long time ago now.

 

[AV1611VET]

So are our brilliant scientists going to retcon the figures to cover up this gaffe?

Are they, for example, going to rewrite the science bibles to reflect our newly decorated solar system?

Are they going to change the time Voyager 1 cleared our solar system?

Are they going to come up with a new mnenomic to learn the names of the planets in order from the sun?

Will J.C. Galle get the credit for discovering the last known planet we have to date?

Or will all this stuff go the way of the 'flying' squirrel and 'terrible lizard', and no one will bother to update the books?

 

[Nostromo]

What gaffe?

 

[Bushido216]

So are our brilliant scientists going to retcon the figures to cover up this gaffe?

Are they, for example, going to rewrite the science bibles to reflect our newly decorated solar system?

Are they going to change the time Voyager 1 cleared our solar system?

Are they going to come up with a new mnenomic to learn the names of the planets in order from the sun?

Will J.C. Galle get the credit for discovering the last known planet we have to date?

Or will all this stuff go the way of the 'flying' squirrel and 'terrible lizard', and no one will bother to update the books?

You do realize that EVERY biblical figure was of the belief that the sun revolved around the Earth, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

You do realize that EVERY biblical figure was of the belief that the sun revolved around the Earth, right?

No, I don't realize that.

They won't return my calls.

 

[Nabobalis]

So are our brilliant scientists going to retcon the figures to cover up this gaffe?

What gaffe?

Are they, for example, going to rewrite the science bibles to reflect our newly decorated solar system?

The textbooks will be rewritten, but they don't rewrite textbooks for minor corrections. They wait till they have a good reason like a change in the curriculum.

Are they going to change the time Voyager 1 cleared our solar system?

You do know that the solar system extends beyond Pluto? So having Pluto a non planet doesn't change that in the slightest.

Are they going to come up with a new mnenomic to learn the names of the planets in order from the sun?

Maybe, you will have to ask school teachers or parents for that one.

Will J.C. Galle get the credit for discovering the last known planet we have to date?

Maybe, but I hope there are more planets to be found but further out in the solar system.

Or will all this stuff go the way of the 'flying' squirrel and 'terrible lizard', and no one will bother to update the books?

What do you mean by that? The "Flying" squirrel is still around and I remember it in my GCSE textbooks all the way back then.

 

[AV1611VET]

What do you mean by that?

Flying squirrels don't fly, they glide.

 

[ReverendDG]

Flying squirrels don't fly, they glide.

yes and so what? flying squirrel is a layman's name for the animal.
the people that named it that didn't realize that they just glide.

what difference does that make? lots of stuff is not scientifically correct, the only time it needs to be is when the topic is dealing with science. science has to be precise.

 

[ReverendDG]

So are our brilliant scientists going to retcon the figures to cover up this gaffe?

what "figures"? it isn't a gaffe, this is how science works!

Are they, for example, going to rewrite the science bibles to reflect our newly decorated solar system?

never seen a science bible, is there such a thing?

Are they going to change the time Voyager 1 cleared our solar system?

uh no? why would that be an issue?

Are they going to come up with a new mnenomic to learn the names of the planets in order from the sun?

... are you serious? dude seriously get a grip! honestly this is just embarrassing
teachers might need to do something, but that is up to the school boards, not scientists

Will J.C. Galle get the credit for discovering the last known planet we have to date?

no, why would that happen?

Or will all this stuff go the way of the 'flying' squirrel and 'terrible lizard', and no one will bother to update the books?

dude get over it already.
by the way "terrible lizard" is what dinosaur means, it hasn't gone anywhere,
yeesh pick up a book once in awhile...

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

I would have to disagree with Mike Brown, should have made Eris a planet. The relative importance of a body (whatever that means) should have no bearing on whether it's a planet or not. Ultimatly it's not important as it's a question of semantics but I'm not too fond of the decision especially in light of his search for Eris being for the purpose of changing the definition. For me using Eris as a reason makes no logical sense.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Here is a quiz

1. When was an 8th object in the solar system discovered and named as a planet?

2. When was a ninth "planet" discovered and named?

3. How many named planets were there by 1852?

Can you answer without Wikipedia?

 

[AV1611VET]

Here is a quiz

1. When was an 8th planet discovered and named?

2. When was a ninth planet discovered and named?

3. How many named planets were there by 1852?

Can you answer without Wikipedia?

I'll take a shot:

1. 1846

2. 1930

3. 8

How did I do?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I'll take a shot:

1. 1846

2. 1930

3. 8

How did I do?

The 8th object to be discovered and named as a planet was Ceres in 1801.

The 9th was Pallus in 1802.

By 1852 there were 23 named planets in the solar system. Then all of the "planets" between Mars and Jupiter were reclassified as asteroids. The demotion of Ceres and Pallus and Vesta and others didn't really cause much stir at the time, perhaps because they didn't share their names with cartoon caracters.

PS: My source for this is my personally autographed copy of Neil deGrasse Tyson's book "The Pluto Files" but you can also find it on the web.

 

[AV1611VET]

The 8th object to be discovered and named as a planet was Ceres in 1801.

The 9th was Pallus in 1802.

By 1852 there were 23 named planets in the solar system. Then all of the "planets" between Mars and Jupiter were reclassified as asteroids. The demotion of Ceres and Pallus and Vesta and others didn't really cause much stir at the time, perhaps because they didn't share their names with cartoon caracters.

PS: My source for this is my personally autographed copy of Neil deGrasse Tyson's book "The Pluto Files" but you can also find it on the web.

Fair enough, but keep in mind that I don't have to agree with the Pluto vote, nor do I have to agree with anything Mr Tyson wrote, either.

I'm not in a position where I have to bow to many man-made paradigms for economic survival.

When the Pluto Squad shows up at my front door and tells me I have to start believing Pluto is a dwarf planet or I'm going to jail, I'll say, "Lock me up."

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Fair enough, but keep in mind that I don't have to agree with the Pluto vote, nor do I have to agree with anything Mr Tyson wrote, either.

I'm not in a position where I have to bow to many man-made paradigms for economic survival.

When the Pluto Squad shows up at my front door and tells me I have to start believing Pluto is a dwarf planet or I'm going to jail, I'll say, "Lock me up."

Pluto is what it is whatever you call it or believe it should be called. It is an object with a highly eccetric orbit, smaller than 7 of the moons in the solar system and one of perhaps 70,000 similar object in the Kuiper belt.

Why Pluto is No Longer a Planet

It doesn't matter what you or anyone else believes. You can call it a unicorn if you desire but that won't change what it is anymore than calling Ceres a planet changed what it is.

 

[AV1611VET]

Pluto is what it is whatever you call it or believe it should be called.

Then this ↓ is nothing more than propaganda?

Why Pluto is No Longer a Planet

You can call it a unicorn if you desire but that won't change what it is...

As long as I don't call it a 'planet' -- right?

That's what a rigged vote behind closed doors in 2006 was all about? calling Pluto anything but a 'planet'?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Then this ↓ is nothing more than propaganda?

Why Pluto is No Longer a Planet

As long as I don't call it a 'planet' -- right?

That's what a rigged vote behind closed doors in 2006 was all about? calling Pluto anything but a 'planet'?

That is where we differ. I care about the territory you are obsessing over the map.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is where we differ. I care about the territory you are obsessing over the map.

Um ... the map was the territory for 76 years.

In view of the fact that nothing 'out there' changed, are you saying we went for 76 years with a myopic map?

And if you care so much -- what do you think of those scientists who still want Pluto on the map?

Do they care too; or are you setting the industry standard here?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Um ... the map was the territory for 76 years.

Sorry but the map never was the territory. It was always just a map and maps change as more is discovered about the territory they represent.

In view of the fact that nothing 'out there' changed, are you saying we went for 76 years with a myopic map?

Nothing out there changed but new objects that were not known were discovered to be out there. The situation is very analogous to the renaming of Ceres and other asteroids as asteroids rather than planets when more and more members of the asteroid belt were discovered. I suppose there might have been more debate then if there had been an internet and Ceres had the same name as a cute cartoon dog.

BTW all maps of the solar system are in a sense myopic. We just keep getting better and better glasses to see with. Hopefully the New Horizons mission will give us a bit less myopic view in 2015.

And if you care so much -- what do you think of those scientists who still want Pluto on the map?

I don't care that much about the lables. That was my point.

Do they care too; or are you setting the industry standard here?

Pluto is still on the map. What you are actually obsessing over is not even the map but the labels on the map.