The Lords Supper & Discernment

[BrotherJJ]

Not discerning the body, in short: That by their improper manner of observing this Christ given ordinance, they would expose themselves to the divine displeasure & punishment.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: Discern: [ A-2,Verb,G1252, diakrino ]
1 Corinthians 11:29, with reference to partaking of the bread and the cup of the Lord's Supper unworthily, by not "discerning" or discriminating what the wine and bread represent;

Early in the chapter & again at the end. The Apostle rebukes those in the Church/Body that treated partaking in the Lord's supper as it were a shared common meal. They wern't discerning this sacred partaking as the rememberance/memorial ordinance (vrs 24-26) the Lord had ordered it to be.

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: """this is my body, which is broken for you""": """this do in remembrance of me""".

1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
(NOTE: In the Lord's Supper/communion we """Remember""" the past. This covenant that brings us the forgiveness of sins was ratified, or "cut," by the shedding of Jesus blood & His broken body. And forever sealed in resurrection power

1 Cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, """ye do shew the Lord's death till he come""".
(NOTE: When we partake, we memorialize the the Lord's death until he comes)

Ex 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
(NOTE: This Passover Feast/ordinance shall be MEMORIAL)

Passover & The Lords Supper/Communion meals are both given as meals of memorial/remembrance.

For Jews, the Passover meal was given to memorialize/remember: Their deliverance from slavery & 10th plague/angel of death.

For Christians, 1 Cor 5:7 (C) For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
(NOTE: The Lords Supper is our Passover meal. When we partake, we are to remember His Sacrifice that thru faith delivers us from sin & death)

Like Passover Christ's Last Supper with His disciples ended with the singing Hallel hymns (Ps 113-118 - Mat 26:30 & Mk 14:26)

Jn 6:53-58 Speaks to the importance of our partaking.

OT only those under the Mosaic covenant could partake in God's Passover Feast/ordinance:
Exodus 12:43-48. No foreigners, servants, sojourners or strangers could partake in the in the Passover meal unless they were circumcised. Also see Gen 17:7-14

1 Cor 11:27 Who ever eats this bread, & drinks this cup of the Lord, unworthily, will be guilty of the body & blood of the Lord
(NOTE: I've seen many people/teachers/preachers tie/force sin into this verse. Jesus who gave the ordinance, PAID, for the believers sins. This verse is warning NON-believers. Uncircumcised were forbidden to partake in the OT & NON-believers are not to partake in this NT ordinance. You can't discern the wine/blood or bread/body if you don't understand/believe what they represent)

 

[Dave-W]

There is another factor that most miss in this. One of the KEY things in bible interpretation is CONTEXT. In the context of the book, in the very next chapter he tells us this:

1 Cor 12:27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

The entire chapter uses the image of the congregation as the Body of our Lord. In chapter 11 he rebukes those who glut out or get drunk while others starve and go thirsty. Not discerning the body is not caring for your disadvantaged brothers and sisters. Not seeing them as important to the Lord.

 

[BrotherJJ]

I don't believe the CONTEXT of these Lords Supper specific verses are applicable. In speaking to the overall Body/Church

Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Mark 14:22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

John 6:
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you:

 

[Dave-W]

I don't believe the CONTEXT of these Lords Supper specific verses are applicable.

Look deeper. Yes he was talking about His death. But He was ALSO talking about the Body/the church. Paul is bringing those 2 ideas together in 1 Cor 11 & 12.

 

[Albion]

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: """this is my body, which is broken for you""": """this do in remembrance of me""".

1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
(NOTE: In the Lord's Supper/communion we """Remember""" the past. This covenant that brings us the forgiveness of sins was ratified, or "cut," by the shedding of Jesus blood & His broken body. And forever sealed in resurrection power

1 Cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, """ye do shew the Lord's death till he come""".
(NOTE: When we partake, we memorialize the the Lord's death until he comes)

Christians who focus exclusively upon the remembrance aspect of the Lord's Supper, when the Lord clearly described it as having that meaning AND something else as well...

...may be failing to discern the Lord's Body and Blood and therefore fall afoul of that admonition which you very rightly called our attention to.

Something to think about.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Look deeper. Yes he was talking about His death. But He was ALSO talking about the Body/the church. Paul is bringing those 2 ideas together in 1 Cor 11 & 12.

I respectfully disagree, when Christ initiated the ordinance (verses posted above) there was NO Body/Church.

 

[Dave-W]

when Christ initiated the ordinance (verses posted above) there was NO Body/Church.

True - but there WAS by the time Paul wrote 1 Cor 11.

 

[Albion]

Wow, we have just begun and already we have three quite different interpretations of the Lord's words about the Supper/Sacrament he was instituting.

 

[Andrewn]

Christians who focus exclusively upon the remembrance aspect of the Lord's Supper, when the Lord clearly described it as having that meaning AND something else as well... ...may be failing to discern the Lord's Body and Blood and therefore fall afoul of that admonition which you very rightly called our attention to. Something to think about.

I agree. I used to think that closed Communion is a grave sin as it breaks the unity of Christ's Body. I still believe that. But I also believe that considering the Lord's Supper a mere ordinance or memorial is also a grave sin.

I've seen unbaptized believers encouraged to take Communion. The original Church didn't even allow catechumens to attend the consecration of bread and wine.

 

[bling]

What personal benefit to you receive from remembering the cruel torture and murder of Christ?

 

[Albion]

I've seen unbaptized believers encouraged to take Communion. The original Church didn't even allow catechumens to attend the consecration of bread and wine.

That's true, and it is because the Apostolic church did not think that the Lord's Supper was simply a memorial. If it had held that view, there would have been little sense in excluding catechumens.

 

[com7fy8]

At first, Paul is very concerned about how certain people shamed those who had "nothing". Later, he says, that, because many were sick and weak and dying, wait for one another.

These concerns had to do with how they were discerning people who are the body of Jesus.

It does not say, "not discerning the body and blood of Christ." It says "not discerning the Lord's body".

How they were relating was a major concern. It is not a party or shared dinner, but Jesus wants us to live in remembrance of Him, by living in the love which had Him so suffer and die for us, and live this love for one another; this, by the way, is a Bible basic of Christian living > Ephesians 5:2.

Our remembrance of Jesus is not only thinking of Him or having a symbolic show of His body being broken, but our remembrance includes how we are relating in His love. I would say, then, the remembrance includes His love living in us now.

After he said they were betraying the body and blood of Jesus, he says make sure you wait for one another. He wants the Lord's Supper to include how we are relating with one another as His family, I see from this.

Paul starts with how they were shaming those who had "nothing". And Paul finishes with how they need to be relating. Usually, a writer puts at the beginning and end of a message what the person wants to emphasize the most, according to my basic English writing classes. So, with such emphasis, I see how Paul could mean a number of things to be related with how he starts and finishes with attention to how they were relating.

 

[bèlla]

I recalled this passage during the first meal I had at the synagogue. At the end of service there were individual portions of bread and wine we had for the Sabbath.

The meal was open to all. We entered the hall, washed our hands and proceeded through the various stations of food and beverages.

The seating was open and we often sat with strangers and welcomed them to join us. When we sat down we didn’t eat. A rabbi or member of clergy would share opening remarks and beckoned us to recite the prayer placed on the cards at our table.

We blessed the food and gave thanks on one accord. There were no distinctions. We were sharing a meal and one another’s company. It was a beautiful experience.

I came to faith in Christ that day. The love of my neighbor and the kindness and fellowship I experienced were overwhelming.

I understand Paul’s words. It wasn’t I or you that made the difference. It was we that opened the door. Love was the key.

 

[Andrewn]

What personal benefit to you receive from remembering the cruel torture and murder of Christ?

This is a fourth interpretation. The Lord Jesus himself answered your question in Joh 6:

53 So Jesus said to them, “Amen, Amen, I tell you: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves. 54 The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the Last Day. 55 For my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink. 56 The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like your fathers ate and died. The one who eats this bread will live forever.”

Note the condition above: "you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood."

 

[BrotherJJ]

What personal benefit to you receive from remembering the cruel torture and murder of Christ?

Here's why:

Generally when we go to REMEMBER the death of a fallen soldier, a family member or loved one. It is a time when we feel grief & loss.

Remember: Jesus has RISEN! Our Rememberance in the Lords Supper. Is a time for CELEBRATION! We are envoking the NEW COVENANT.

Remembrance itself is a covenantal word. In the Lord's Supper we "Remember" that our blessings were purchased through a costly price

Partaking in the the Lord's Supper, Physically & Spiritually nourish & sustain, those already born again.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Rom 3:25 God sent Christ to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(NOTE: Propitiation = to make reconciliation via atoning sacrifice)

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(NOTE: KJV Dictionary Definition: remission = Forgiveness; pardon; that is, the giving up of the punishment due to a crime; as the remission of sins. Matt 26)

Jn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
(NOTE: If you don't partake in this Christ given communion ordinance, You'll have """NO LIFE""" in you)

Summery: Forgiveness Spiritual & Physical Health:
The Cup of Blessing (1 Cor 11:25): A cup of wine, representing of the sacrificial New Covenant, cut by & in the Lords Blood. For the forgiveness & removal of every Sin every believer ever commits.

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: """this is my body, which is broken for you""": """this do in remembrance of me""".

1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
(NOTE: In the Lord's Supper/communion we "Remember" His sin payment. Faith in His payment brings us the forgiveness of sins & was ratified, or "cut," by the shedding of Jesus blood & His broken body. This covenant was forever sealed in resurrection power. When we partake, we look forward to His future return: ""you do show the Lord's death until he comes"")

The bread that the Lord took & broke (1 Cor 11:24) Bread, representing of The Lords Sinless body, BROKEN, for the spiritual & physical restitution of every believer.

Pay special attention to Matt 8:17; it accentuates why His Body was Broken

Matthew 8:17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: “He took up our infirmities & """bore our diseases"""

Isa 53 4-6, 1 Pet 2:24 & Matt 6:49-59 All again; accentuate why His Body was Broken for us. For our Spiritual & Physical healing & health.

 

[BrotherJJ]

That's true, and it is because the Apostolic church did not think that the Lord's Supper was simply a memorial. If it had held that view, there would have been little sense in excluding catechumens.

Any scripture on this narrative would be appreciated.

 

[BrotherJJ]

At first, Paul is very concerned about how certain people shamed those who had "nothing". Later, he says, that, because many were sick and weak and dying, wait for one another.

These concerns had to do with how they were discerning people who are the body of Jesus.

It does not say, "not discerning the body and blood of Christ." It says "not discerning the Lord's body".

How they were relating was a major concern. It is not a party or shared dinner, but Jesus wants us to live in remembrance of Him, by living in the love which had Him so suffer and die for us, and live this love for one another; this, by the way, is a Bible basic of Christian living > Ephesians 5:2.

Our remembrance of Jesus is not only thinking of Him or having a symbolic show of His body being broken, but our remembrance includes how we are relating in His love. I would say, then, the remembrance includes His love living in us now.

After he said they were betraying the body and blood of Jesus, he says make sure you wait for one another. He wants the Lord's Supper to include how we are relating with one another as His family, I see from this.

Paul starts with how they were shaming those who had "nothing". And Paul finishes with how they need to be relating. Usually, a writer puts at the beginning and end of a message what the person wants to emphasize the most, according to my basic English writing classes. So, with such emphasis, I see how Paul could mean a number of things to be related with how he starts and finishes with attention to how they were relating.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: Discern

1 Corinthians 11:29, with reference to partaking of the bread and the cup of the Lord's Supper unworthily, by not "discerning" or discriminating what they represent;

Vines translators give a scripture specific definition for 1 Cor 11:29. Its true earlier in the chapter Paul calls out believers for several reasons. When we get to vs 29 the context of not "discerning" & unworthily are clearly laid out. """Not discriminating what they (wine/blood & bread/body) represent.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Dave-W, post: 74182671, member: 354693"]There is another factor that most miss in this. One of the KEY things in bible interpretation is CONTEXT. In the context of the book, in the very next chapter he tells us this:

1 Cor 12:27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

The entire chapter uses the image of the congregation as the Body of our Lord. In chapter 11 he rebukes those who glut out or get drunk while others starve and go thirsty. Not discerning the body is not caring for your disadvantaged brothers and sisters. Not seeing them as important to the Lord.[/QUOTE
==============================================
This I think is the most common sin I've seen in congregations of any or of no denomination. Only a few have shown proper care and recognition of the body of believers in most cities or places...... and fewer still are known for doing what is right....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What personal benefit to you receive from remembering the cruel torture and murder of Christ?

Since we crucified our Lord and Savior Yahshua Hamashiach when He did nothing wrong,
when He came to die for us and to set us free from the world, from the flesh, and from the power of hasatan, and from the power of sin,

I benefited from the overwhelming grief and sorrow , Godly sorrow that led to repentance,
and from the immense humbling ,
knowing that DEITY, Jesus, humbled more than anyone can imagine just in becoming born of man,
died for me, in my place, and in the place of all who were chosen.

 

[Albion]

Any scripture on this narrative would be appreciated.

All one needs to do is read the entire passage from which people take the words 'Do this in remembrance of me.' We cannot just leapfrog over Jesus saying "This is my body" and "This is my blood." Matthew 26:26-28. Luke 22:19.