The Lord's Supper: a means of grace

[JM]

Good read,

The Lord's Supper: A Means of Grace — JOETHORN.net

 

[bbbbbbb]

Good read,

The Lord's Supper: A Means of Grace — JOETHORN.net

Yes, it was quite excellent. I often wonder why many churches, including Baptists, only have the Lord's supper infrequently (usually monthly) if they hold it in high regard as this writer does. One of the reasons I attend a Plymouth Brethren church is that they have the Lord's supper as a stand-alone service every Sunday and it is a means of God's grace in my life as the writer describes it.

Thank you.

 

[JM]

b's, how do the Brethren celebrate the Lord's Supper? Wine or grape juice? Who officiates?

 

[twin1954]

Yes, it was quite excellent. I often wonder why many churches, including Baptists, only have the Lord's supper infrequently (usually monthly) if they hold it in high regard as this writer does. One of the reasons I attend a Plymouth Brethren church is that they have the Lord's supper as a stand-alone service every Sunday and it is a means of God's grace in my life as the writer describes it.

Thank you.

What the writer is contending for is that the Lord's Supper is a special means of grace much like the Presbys contend. It is no more a means of grace than reading your Bible, praying listening to the preaching of the Gospel etc.

 

[faroukfarouk]

What the writer is contending for is that the Lord's Supper is a special means of grace much like the Presbys contend. It is no more a means of grace than reading your Bible, praying listening to the preaching of the Gospel etc.

Once ppl start elevating the bread and wine above the Scriptures and prayer, it leads to a lot of problems.

 

[JM]

What the writer is contending for is that the Lord's Supper is a special means of grace much like the Presbys contend. It is no more a means of grace than reading your Bible, praying listening to the preaching of the Gospel etc.

I don't think so brother. I believe he is saying the Gospel is preached through the sacraments or ordinances. Not that they convey grace in the means (like Calvin) or the work (RC), but that they convey the Gospel just like preaching the word conveys the Gospel. This is what, if I'm not mistaken, Bullinger taught and has been largely forgotten.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[bbbbbbb]

b's, how do the Brethren celebrate the Lord's Supper? Wine or grape juice? Who officiates?

Some use wine and some use grape juice. Some use a single cup and some use small cups in a tray. There are even some that have a single cup of wine in the center of the tray surrounded by little cups of grape juice. This is determined by the elders of the individual church. Although there is diversity in the practice, there is unity among the members even if they might not fully desire the actual form used.

It sounds peculiar, but God, the Holy Spirit, officiates. When I first heard this I thought that sounded Pentecostal and the result would be chaos. However, the meeting is similar to that of a traditional Quaker (Friends) meeting. Various men of the congregation participate vocally by reading short portions of scripture, sometimes with a brief sermonettep; praying; and announcing hymns. There is a separate hymnal with communion hymns which is used for this service. At the end of the service one man will give thanks for the bread. The bread will be broken and passed by him or a man who has been asked to do that by the elders. Following that, a man (sometimes the same man, but not always) will give thanks for the cup and it will be passed. At the very end a collection is usually taken, followed by greetings and announcements.

The meeting is very calm and orderly and reverent.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don't think so brother. I believe he is saying the Gospel is preached through the sacraments or ordinances. Not that they convey grace in the means (like Calvin) or the work (RC), but that they convey the Gospel just like preaching the word conveys the Gospel. This is what, if I'm not mistaken, Bullinger taught and has been largely forgotten.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Yes, I agree with you entirely. To give an example, about 37 years ago I met a young Christian man who was attending another church which I knew to be sound in doctrine. I invited him to my church for communion and he came one Sunday morning. At the end of the meeting he was sobbing. I was quite amazed and perplexed. I asked him about it and he said that God had convicted him of some deep sin because of the bread and wine and what it depicts and, as a result, he had repented. After that experience he grew into a very solid Christian and is faithfully serving the Lord to this very day.

 

[faroukfarouk]

"No gospel like this feast
Spread for thy church by thee;
Nor prophet nor evangelist
Preach the glad news so free.

All our redemption cost,
All our redemption won;
All it has won for us, the lost,
All it cost thee, the Son.

Thine was the bitter price,
Ours is the free gift given;
Thine was the blood of sacrifice,
Ours is the wine of heaven.

For thee, the burning thirst,
The shame, the mortal strife,
The broken heart, the side transpierced;
To us, the bread of life.

Here we would rest midway,
As on a sacred height,
That darkest and that brightest day
Meeting before our sight;

From that dark depth of woes
Thy love for us hath trod
Up to the heights of blest repose
Thy love prepares with God:

Till, from self's chains released,
One sight alone we see -
Still at the cross, as at the feast,
Behold thee, only thee!"

Elizabeth Charles

 

[bbbbbbb]

"No gospel like this feast
Spread for thy church by thee;
Nor prophet nor evangelist
Preach the glad news so free.

All our redemption cost,
All our redemption won;
All it has won for us, the lost,
All it cost thee, the Son.

Thine was the bitter price,
Ours is the free gift given;
Thine was the blood of sacrifice,
Ours is the wine of heaven.

For thee, the burning thirst,
The shame, the mortal strife,
The broken heart, the side transpierced;
To us, the bread of life.

Here we would rest midway,
As on a sacred height,
That darkest and that brightest day
Meeting before our sight;

From that dark depth of woes
Thy love for us hath trod
Up to the heights of blest repose
Thy love prepares with God:

Till, from self's chains released,
One sight alone we see -
Still at the cross, as at the feast,
Behold thee, only thee!"

Elizabeth Charles

Thank you. I am not familiar with that hymn. Here is one I like -

Sweet feast of love divine!
’Tis grace that makes us free
To feed upon this bread and wine,
In memory, Lord, of Thee.


Here every welcome guest
Waits, Lord, from Thee to learn
The secrets of Thy Father’s breast,
And all Thy grace discern.


Here conscience ends its strife,
And faith delights to prove
The sweetness of the bread of life,
The fullness of Thy love.


Thy blood that flowed for sin,
In symbol here we see,
And feel the blessèd pledge within,
That we are loved of Thee.


But if this glimpse of love
Is so divinely sweet,
What will it be, O Lord, above,
Thy gladdening smile to meet—


To see Thee face to face,
Thy perfect likeness wear,
And all Thy ways of wondrous grace
Through endless years declare!

 

[classicalhero]

The way the article is written s quite confusing and that is why it is best not to see it as a means of grace, because when we are talking about grace, we are normally talking about God's Grace and thus people can get confused when such phrases are being used to those who don't fully understand what he is trying to get. The fact he had to straight out say that he doesn't mean that the bread and grape juice (the Bible says fruit of the vine and not wine,) are not means of grace themselves, shows he know s about eh possible confusion. I just think it is much easier to stay away from that path, because it can be taken wrongly.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The way the article is written s quite confusing and that is why it is best not to see it as a means of grace, because when we are talking about grace, we are normally talking about God's Grace and thus people can get confused when such phrases are being used to those who don't fully understand what he is trying to get. The fact he had to straight out say that he doesn't mean that the bread and grape juice (the Bible says fruit of the vine and not wine,) are not means of grace themselves, shows he know s about eh possible confusion. I just think it is much easier to stay away from that path, because it can be taken wrongly.

What value do you find in communion and how often does your church have it?

 

[JM]

What value do you find in communion and how often does your church have it?

b's, is it true that Brethren churches have an unofficial hierarchy where the longest attending members are closest to the Lord's Table?

 

[bbbbbbb]

b's, is it true that Brethren churches have an unofficial hierarchy where the longest attending members are closest to the Lord's Table?

I have not encountered that at all, although it might be possible. There is a larger variety of traditions among the various Plymouth Brethren groups. That is certainly not the case with the church I attend, however.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Thank you. I am not familiar with that hymn. Here is one I like -

Sweet feast of love divine!
’Tis grace that makes us free
To feed upon this bread and wine,
In memory, Lord, of Thee.


Here every welcome guest
Waits, Lord, from Thee to learn
The secrets of Thy Father’s breast,
And all Thy grace discern.


Here conscience ends its strife,
And faith delights to prove
The sweetness of the bread of life,
The fullness of Thy love.


Thy blood that flowed for sin,
In symbol here we see,
And feel the blessèd pledge within,
That we are loved of Thee.


But if this glimpse of love
Is so divinely sweet,
What will it be, O Lord, above,
Thy gladdening smile to meet—


To see Thee face to face,
Thy perfect likeness wear,
And all Thy ways of wondrous grace
Through endless years declare!

I love that hymn also.

The Lord's Supper is a sweet remembrance and a joyous looking forward in faith and certain hope.

 

[faroukfarouk]

b's, is it true that Brethren churches have an unofficial hierarchy where the longest attending members are closest to the Lord's Table?

I strongly doubt it.

The whole point of simplicity of gathering and worship surely involves the idea that no piece of ground is supposedly holier that another.

'Jesu, where'er Thy people meet,
There they behold the Mercy Seat,
To them that seek Thee, Thou are found,
And every place is hallowed ground.'

 

[JM]

It seems it is true at least at the local assembly in my area. The woman also wear large hats. A friend of mine use to attend but now attends the same Baptist church I do.

 

[faroukfarouk]

It seems it is true at least at the local assembly in my area. The woman also wear large hats. A friend of mine use to attend but now attends the same Baptist church I do.

...presumably small mantillas would also do the trick?

 

[twin1954]

I strongly doubt it.

The whole point of simplicity of gathering and worship surely involves the idea that no piece of ground is supposedly holier that another.

'Jesu, where'er Thy people meet,
There they behold the Mercy Seat,
To them that seek Thee, Thou are found,
And every place is hallowed ground.'

Reminds me of a story about Henry Mahan, a faithful pastor for many years and one with as quick a wit as any man I have ever met, and a fellow in one of his many meetings.

After the services they had a dinner and the man had sat in front of Henry to ask him several questions. Henry was eating and answering but noticed that the man had not gotten a plate of food. Henry asked the man if he was going to eat and the man answered that he didn't believe that we ought to do such things in the house of God. Henry promptly answered," You pee in it don't you?"

 

[bbbbbbb]

It seems it is true at least at the local assembly in my area. The woman also wear large hats. A friend of mine use to attend but now attends the same Baptist church I do.

This is one branch of the Brethren. The headcovering for women has become, for many, a denominational indicator. The branch of the Brethren I attend tends to go to the opposite extreme - small little doilies. In our particular church there is much more variety than normal.